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Old 09-12-2017, 11:34 AM
 
13,421 posts, read 4,774,951 times
Reputation: 9409

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Have you been to Concord? Marblehead? Winchester? Wellesley? Weston? Manchester-by-the-Sea? Lexington? Are you prepared to call those a dump- or is if that you simply can't afford a nice(r) town in Massachusetts? I'd argue that outside of a few suburbs in NY, San Fran, and Chicago, Boston has some of the most aesthetically pleasing suburbs in North America.

What you are seeing in North Reading is a decade long shift from blue-collar to white-collar. It's the same across the majority of Massachusetts. On a wealth scale, I'd bet North Reading is not in the top 75 towns in Massachusetts as far as median-income. Show me the 75th most affluent town in greater St. Louis... Yikes...

Now, back to productive conversation. Take your $600k and buy a small house in nice neighborhood in Andover, or use that money for a nice colonial in Westford. If you want a nicer town closer to the city, you're going to pay for it. I personally think North Reading is just fine, but it's certainly not going to blow you away (especially for the price). It's very much a normal, every day, second-tier suburb.
You may be right, that I just can't afford the nicer towns. And your point about St Louis is well-taken, but only increases my consternation: It's not like I'm coming from the garden spot of the US. I was expecting better here.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:45 AM
 
23,116 posts, read 18,270,746 times
Reputation: 10656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
You may be right, that I just can't afford the nicer towns. And your point about St Louis is well-taken, but only increases my consternation: It's not like I'm coming from the garden spot of the US. I was expecting better here.

Plenty of attractive middle to upper middle class towns south of Boston. Towns like Walpole, Foxboro, Easton, Bridgewater, etc.

Going west you have to go a little further out (at least to 495), but they are there.

North, I'm not so sure about. You may be correct, or you might have to go way up like into NH.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:32 PM
 
9,787 posts, read 7,057,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs View Post
I think the OP prefers the type of towns where a developer comes in, puts in a Panera, Cheese Cake factory, and other chains and calls the complex "downtown" surrounded by xxl SUV parking spots.
IMHO, the issue is that New England has never been the type of place where a developer comes in and builds a new suburban development with 8,000 houses, new schools, shopping, etc. There just isn't enough land or towns big enough to do that like has been done in other areas for the past 50-60 years.

We are seeing a little bit of that in Plymouth with Pine Hills and Weymouth with Union Point. But I don't think it'll happen because our small towns have pretty strict zoning and want to keep the developers from having the upper hand.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:14 PM
 
2,307 posts, read 1,797,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
You may be right, that I just can't afford the nicer towns. And your point about St Louis is well-taken, but only increases my consternation: It's not like I'm coming from the garden spot of the US. I was expecting better here.

North Reading:
population: 15,076
per capita income $45,031
median income per household $110,852
median income per family $131,209


Clayton, Missouri:
population: 15,939
per capita income $48,055
median income per household $87,756
median income per family $107,346

downtown clayton:

http://mikelewisrealtor.com/wp-conte...yon-night.jpeg

downtown north reading:

https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...5Q3VE6Q/ls.jpg


can we stop pretending that the greater Boston area is anything other than a coffin for people who make less than $200,000 per year ?

Last edited by CaseyB; 09-13-2017 at 05:42 AM.. Reason: copyright violations
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:35 PM
 
53 posts, read 177,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_League View Post

can we stop pretending that the greater Boston area is anything other than a coffin for people who make less than $200,000 per year ?


Picture is worth a thousand words!

OP - its a different part of the country. This isn't the mid-west, or Texas or Denver - and there are good and bad things associated with that.

Its quaint and charming and "older" and could very well be not for you, but give it a chance. Not a lot of land here, so people adjust in different ways - you won't get a subdivision, so the best you can hope for is a neighborhood with newer houses. You have been given some good alternatives, check them out.

One piece of advice I can give as a transplant that had a tough couple of years before adjusting (15 years now!) is that not every part of the state is the same - I could not adjust to the north shore, but loved Cambridge. Rent for a bit and figure out what is important to you (newer houses/close to malls/commute distance) and see if what towns offer you that. Each town is different. Good luck!
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:09 PM
 
5,000 posts, read 3,853,007 times
Reputation: 4502
Salem, MA:
population: 41,430
per capita income $23,875
median income per household $44,033


Wildwood, Missouri:
population: 35,217
per capita income $38,485
median income per household $113,270


Salem, MA
https://i0.wp.com/www.danabullrealto...fit=1500%2C450

Wildwood, MO
http://media.connectingstlouis.com/5...er-63040-1.jpg

Let's not pretend that argument holds any weight.

OP says he liked downtown Andover which is where we just moved (back) to from north shore Chicago. I wouldn't trade Andover for Wilmette in a single category except for the waterfront, and Wilmette is one of the 5-6-7 nicest suburbs in Chicago. Is Andover even considered one of the nicest 15 suburbs in Boston? Probably not. Again, go try a Winchester, Wellesley, Hingham, Concord, Marblehead, Newburyport, Newton, Belmont, Needham, Lexington, Manchester, Weston, Lincoln. Point is, this area is saturated with beautiful suburbs IMO.

My recommendation is get out of North Reading and explore this fall. Yes the COL is high - too high- but anybody who has spent time away from North Reading or Saugus knows how beautiful it can get around here. If you like smaller towns that are a bit, sayyy, tidier, try a Westborough type. You'll find a nice house for $600k with a garage in a well-kept neighborhood.

Last edited by CaseyB; 09-13-2017 at 05:41 AM.. Reason: copyright violations
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
4,643 posts, read 13,899,168 times
Reputation: 4626
Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
IMHO, the issue is that New England has never been the type of place where a developer comes in and builds a new suburban development with 8,000 houses, new schools, shopping, etc. There just isn't enough land or towns big enough to do that like has been done in other areas for the past 50-60 years.

We are seeing a little bit of that in Plymouth with Pine Hills and Weymouth with Union Point. But I don't think it'll happen because our small towns have pretty strict zoning and want to keep the developers from having the upper hand.
Traditionally, New England HASN'T been interested in the mega-developments found in other areas of the country. But here in southern New Hampshire, we're starting to see this concept being introduced. I am in Londonderry, 10 +/- miles from the Mass border on 93, and over the next decade or so (20 year build-out from concept/purchase is the plan) we will see a 660 acre 'city' being build within our little New Hampshire town. The charrettes that were held introduced the concept of 'new urbanism' where people live, work & play. Similar (but smaller) neighborhoods are being introduced in Salem, NH and Windham, NH.

The OP would recognize this concept in a development that s/he may have heard about back in Missouri -- the Wing Haven development in St. Charles County. We left that area back in 2001, just as Wing Haven was getting off the ground (we lived in Dardenne Prairie and could see the back 9 of the golf course from our deck).

Interesting topic for me, as someone who moved from Massachusetts, relocated to the STL area and came back to find a place that fit... I'm glad that it was updated and on my radar. Now I'll have to go back and reread the history of the thread so I'm not repeating what's already been said
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:35 PM
 
9,787 posts, read 7,057,010 times
Reputation: 11384
That type of mixed use development is happening all over the place as people want to get away from sprawl. We have it here in Burlington, MA albeit in a smaller scale with 3rd Ave.

I was thinking more of the large, single family home developments with names like Arbor Woods and Forest Crossing where 400 3K sq ft homes are are crammed 3 to an acre, 4 sets of plans, the garage as the main feature of the home, and zero lot lines with all the chain stores you want a mile away on the main road.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:40 PM
 
13,421 posts, read 4,774,951 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
IMHO, the issue is that New England has never been the type of place where a developer comes in and builds a new suburban development with 8,000 houses, new schools, shopping, etc. There just isn't enough land or towns big enough to do that like has been done in other areas for the past 50-60 years.

We are seeing a little bit of that in Plymouth with Pine Hills and Weymouth with Union Point. But I don't think it'll happen because our small towns have pretty strict zoning and want to keep the developers from having the upper hand.
Yeah, this is a point that I have had some trouble understanding. I've been told that the Boston region is all built out, no land available for new housing. Yet everywhere I look are forests and undeveloped land. Most houses in the suburbs seem to sit on 1 or 2 acre lots, which is huge by most standards. I've owned four houses in different states, and all were between 0.25 and 0.5 acre lots. I'm told that here it is because of zoning. I suppose the intent is to preserve some sort of rural or vintage character to the towns, but the actual result is an area filled with rundown old houses that nobody can afford.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:11 PM
 
13,421 posts, read 4,774,951 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Salem, MA:
population: 41,430
per capita income $23,875
median income per household $44,033


Wildwood, Missouri:
population: 35,217
per capita income $38,485
median income per household $113,270


Salem, MA
https://i0.wp.com/www.danabullrealto...fit=1500%2C450

Wildwood, MO
http://media.connectingstlouis.com/5...er-63040-1.jpg

Let's not pretend that argument holds any weight.

OP says he liked downtown Andover which is where we just moved (back) to from north shore Chicago. I wouldn't trade Andover for Wilmette in a single category except for the waterfront, and Wilmette is one of the 5-6-7 nicest suburbs in Chicago. Is Andover even considered one of the nicest 15 suburbs in Boston? Probably not. Again, go try a Winchester, Wellesley, Hingham, Concord, Marblehead, Newburyport, Newton, Belmont, Needham, Lexington, Manchester, Weston, Lincoln. Point is, this area is saturated with beautiful suburbs IMO.

My recommendation is get out of North Reading and explore this fall. Yes the COL is high - too high- but anybody who has spent time away from North Reading or Saugus knows how beautiful it can get around here. If you like smaller towns that are a bit, sayyy, tidier, try a Westborough type. You'll find a nice house for $600k with a garage in a well-kept neighborhood.
Thanks for the advice. Some interesting addition to the stats you listed. Average home price in Salem and Wildwood are about the same, at $350,000. But the Salem household has less than half the income to buy that house. And they get half the house:
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