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Either not bombed, and/or not shut out and closed off due to politics.
I don't believe it is sustainable for say, a husband (as it was in the 50s) to be able to get a high school education, heck, even a college one, to be able to go out and work 40hrs/week, buy a place in a great suburb and support 2.5 kids, a wife, and a dog... and probably have enough for a cottage up at a lake for summer vacations (which is a healthy chunk of what the people I knew in WI, MN, even MA experienced growing up). For eternity of man it has taken the vast majority of people two or more adults (a community) working from sun up to sun down to survive, more days than not. That is closer to reality. We can do better than that, sure, but not to the extreme of the 50s/60s.
Not necessarily so -- when automation began, the whole idea was how great it would be that the work that used to take all day could be accomplished in much less time, so there would be so much leisure time for everyone to pursue their own interests and passions. The work of 3 people working in a factory for 8 hours a day could be accomplished by them working 4 hours a day. But, instead of the 3 people working 4 hours a day for the same pay (i.e. being paid for the number of widgets, rather than the time it took them to produce the widgets), the factory owner essentially decided to fire 2 of the 3 workers and make the remaining worker work 12 hours a day.
If we made certain goods available to all -- that is, healthcare, education, and childcare, that would be a huge increase in quality of life and if individuals didn't have to pay for those by themselves, you might not need 2 adults working in every home to sustain a decent lifestyle.
Sure, centuries ago life sucked for most people. But ultimately, what is the point of humanity if we're not striving for an increased quality of life and happiness for everyone? Isn't the curing of disease and accumulation of knowledge a benefit for everyone? That should be the focus of our societies. And we don't have to sacrifice capitalism and entrepreneurship to get it.
When they have done experiments on things like universal basic income, the outcomes have not been that everyone gives into sloth and laziness. What is seen is an increase in entrepreneurship, artistic endeavors and volunteerism. We could get closer to the good parts of the 60s than you think.
I am lucky to have bought exactly when I did in a boston zip code. Or else, you are right. A year or 2 later I would have been looking in Norwood. The downfall of all this is the demographic of my neighborhood is severely whitewashed upper middle class who preach diversity.
Now, a new prospective home buyer sees Norwood as a viable option. A wegmans, new shopping malls and modern amenities will continue to follow. School rankings will rise. Money will be pumped into the communities in a revamp effort. Look no further than Natick to see the effect in motion over the last decade.
The demand for inner ring burbs will only grow, but my hope is that towns next door benefit from the growth.
...If only we could find a way to build homes/neighborhoods in these benefiting towns with a bit of elegance and class as opposed to the 2000 sq.ft cookie cutter colonials..
Either not bombed, and/or not shut out and closed off due to politics.
I don't believe it is sustainable for say, a husband (as it was in the 50s) to be able to get a high school education, heck, even a college one, to be able to go out and work 40hrs/week, buy a place in a great suburb and support 2.5 kids, a wife, and a dog... and probably have enough for a cottage up at a lake for summer vacations (which is a healthy chunk of what the people I knew in WI, MN, even MA experienced growing up). For eternity of man it has taken the vast majority of people two or more adults (a community) working from sun up to sun down to survive, more days than not. That is closer to reality. We can do better than that, sure, but not to the extreme of the 50s/60s.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz
Not necessarily so -- when automation began, the whole idea was how great it would be that the work that used to take all day could be accomplished in much less time, so there would be so much leisure time for everyone to pursue their own interests and passions. The work of 3 people working in a factory for 8 hours a day could be accomplished by them working 4 hours a day. But, instead of the 3 people working 4 hours a day for the same pay (i.e. being paid for the number of widgets, rather than the time it took them to produce the widgets), the factory owner essentially decided to fire 2 of the 3 workers and make the remaining worker work 12 hours a day.
If we made certain goods available to all -- that is, healthcare, education, and childcare, that would be a huge increase in quality of life and if individuals didn't have to pay for those by themselves, you might not need 2 adults working in every home to sustain a decent lifestyle.
Sure, centuries ago life sucked for most people. But ultimately, what is the point of humanity if we're not striving for an increased quality of life and happiness for everyone? Isn't the curing of disease and accumulation of knowledge a benefit for everyone? That should be the focus of our societies. And we don't have to sacrifice capitalism and entrepreneurship to get it.
When they have done experiments on things like universal basic income, the outcomes have not been that everyone gives into sloth and laziness. What is seen is an increase in entrepreneurship, artistic endeavors and volunteerism. We could get closer to the good parts of the 60s than you think.
I don't disagree with your premises, and of course things like healthcare and education shouldn't be for profit endeavors and they should be basic services.
But with increased automation and production, there will inherently be increased expectations of production. There just needs to be reasonable balance, but there is none. All the gains, and much of the old gains, are now being funneled legally (and illegally) into the hands of the few.
The thing is, many people see this life and accomplishment as zero sum gains. Tearing other's down (say, a union worker that receives X benefits) is seen by many as just as good as going out and making sure they get those benefits themselves. It's messed up. We see this in the attack on the safety net, or public employees, or union employees... people are like, why are the getting this when I work XYZ and don't? Take it away! Instead of going out and say, there is more wealth than ever, I'm producing more than ever, why do I not have that? And then organizing to demand it.
a lot of the state looks either like a bomb hit it or it just looks abandoned and rundown.
And herein lies my problem from the start. Higher taxes in other cities suburbs helped maintained bustling little villages, serviceable highways, and efficient & cost-effective public transit access into and out of their cultural and economic hubs.
No superfund sites, no chemical waste facilities, no towns without a town. This is why I don't appreciate the valuations of properties around here and put a $600k cap on it. Not because I can't afford more, but because I won't pay more for something worth so much less! I'm willing to pay taxes if it means a better QOL, but I get why they're so low here. You couldn't go wrong picking a place to live in Westchester, and that's why I've been so bad at finding a decent place within 495.
Everyone loves to love the same things (Legal, Cape & Islands, Sugarloaf, winning sport teams, fireball nips), even though it often seems like they can't stand to be near one another. At least on the roads.
Just kidding... but also not.
I'm going do my part to ease demand, congestion, and maybe even income inequality in the commonwealth.
Everyone loves to love the same things (Legal, Cape & Islands, Sugarloaf, winning sport teams, fireball nips), even though it often seems like they can't stand to be near one another. At least on the roads.
Just kidding... but also not.
.
That's actually not a bad list compared to most cities. Most of the time those lists are touristy area destinations, and expense account places (usually steak restaurants). Row 34 is pretty great. I'm pleasantly surprised by that list.
That's actually not a bad list compared to most cities. Most of the time those lists are touristy area destinations, and expense account places (usually steak restaurants). Row 34 is pretty great. I'm pleasantly surprised by that list.
The problem is that the landscape and infrastructure are inadequate to handle the volume in places like CC and Loon and Sunapee, and there’s nothing else to do and nowhere else to go. Leave for the Cape on a Friday between 4 & 8 and you crawl the whole way. It’s frankly not worth going because it’s crowded and the beaches suck -water’s 60d and if there are waves it’s shorebreak. People go to crappy chains like Joe’s American, Not Your Average Joe’s, Jake’N Joe’s, and Moe’s Southwest Grill (Moe didn’t get the note) because there are more strip malls on Route XYZ than there are quaint New England towns in Massachusetts.
So if I have to live here I want the financial flexibility to ski out west, camp in the Adirondacks, explore surrounding towns(and not in a ghost hunter/find the bodies way), and fish, surf and sail from.. south of Main Street Hyannis, and do it for longer than the 8 warm weekends a year.
Speaking of find the bodies, why has no one addressed the landscape being dotted with toxic waste sites? I was hoping I was over thinking the direness of the situation, but maybe there’s something cryptic about the “love that dirty water” trope”
The problem is that the landscape and infrastructure are inadequate to handle the volume in places like CC and Loon and Sunapee, and there’s nothing else to do and nowhere else to go. Leave for the Cape on a Friday between 4 & 8 and you crawl the whole way. It’s frankly not worth going because it’s crowded and the beaches suck -water’s 60d and if there are waves it’s shorebreak. People go to crappy chains like Joe’s American, Not Your Average Joe’s, Jake’N Joe’s, and Moe’s Southwest Grill (Moe didn’t get the note) because there are more strip malls on Route XYZ than there are quaint New England towns in Massachusetts.
So if I have to live here I want the financial flexibility to ski out west, camp in the Adirondacks, explore surrounding towns(and not in a ghost hunter/find the bodies way), and fish, surf and sail from.. south of Main Street Hyannis, and do it for longer than the 8 warm weekends a year.
Speaking of find the bodies, why has no one addressed the landscape being dotted with toxic waste sites? I was hoping I was over thinking the direness of the situation, but maybe there’s something cryptic about the “love that dirty water” trope”
This really isn't any different here than it is in most other places. And guess what? There are toxic waste sites in NY and NJ, too. I actually think, largely, that it's better here than in a lot of other cities as far as chains and traffic.
But you obviously don't like it here, and that's fine. If you really want to be in NY or NJ, you should go.
Well played, . I agree the Cape is obnoxious in season, but if you didn't have to deal with traffic and insanely rich scumfolk sending the help out on ATVs to kick us little people off the almost universally private beaches, it's objectively quite a beautiful and special coastal landscape. I prefer RI or Maine beaches because being a W Mass societal outcast living in the blissful tourist-free forest, there's nothing I hate more than being part of a traffic jam full of overpopulated Massaholes in Range Rovers texting with one hand and sucking down a Dunks caramel macchiato with the other. Going to the Cape for a getaway hasn't crossed my mind in my adult life, just occasionally have to go there for work, usually in the fall, when I can appreciate its off-season beauty and calm.
Last edited by CaseyB; 12-30-2017 at 04:48 AM..
Reason: TOS
And herein lies my problem from the start. Higher taxes in other cities suburbs helped maintained bustling little villages, serviceable highways, and efficient & cost-effective public transit access into and out of their cultural and economic hubs.
No superfund sites, no chemical waste facilities, no towns without a town. This is why I don't appreciate the valuations of properties around here and put a $600k cap on it. Not because I can't afford more, but because I won't pay more for something worth so much less! I'm willing to pay taxes if it means a better QOL, but I get why they're so low here. You couldn't go wrong picking a place to live in Westchester, and that's why I've been so bad at finding a decent place within 495.
Everyone loves to love the same things (Legal, Cape & Islands, Sugarloaf, winning sport teams, fireball nips), even though it often seems like they can't stand to be near one another. At least on the roads.
Just kidding... but also not.
I'm going do my part to ease demand, congestion, and maybe even income inequality in the commonwealth.
You like Westchester better. It’s good to know what you like. I like Massachusetts better than I liked New Jersey. It seems like you’ve been living in a different state than I have. I think your version is close to the parody versions I’ve seen on TV. If those are the only people you’ve met I’d suggest you’re right to run away fast.
I’m not sure why you’re fixated on Superfund sites in Massachusetts or why you think it’s something that’s better in NY/NJ. There are 31 in Massachusetts, 87 in New York, and 105 in New Jersey.
All three regions were industrialized before people knew any better.
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