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Well I consider myself a responsible dog owner and I do take my dogs on road trips with me. The car is always parked in shade, the windows are open a few inches and they always have fresh water available. They are also adult dogs that aren't hyperactive and running around loose in my car barking. It depends on the size and energy level of the dog. And I'm not changing my habits for anyone. I see plenty of other people with dogs left in their parked cars while they run errands. I really don't see what the big deal is if the cars are in shade and they have water. Of course, if I saw someone else's dog in a dangerous situation of being in a hot car or who was in distress, I would call the cops.
People who do the dog show circuit haul around their dogs in crates in their vehicles. While on the road, there will be times when the dogs are in the vehicles for long periods of time. Their dogs seem to be okay and not stressed out. I also know a lot of antique dealers that take their dogs with them everywhere. And their dogs are happy and well adjusted animals.
So Moving Forward, what was the point of your thread? Are you upset that someone you know is leaving their dog in their car for long periods of time?
Well I consider myself a responsible dog owner and I do take my dogs on road trips with me. The car is always parked in shade, the windows are open a few inches and they always have fresh water available. They are also adult dogs that aren't hyperactive and running around loose in my car barking. It depends on the size and energy level of the dog. And I'm not changing my habits for anyone. I see plenty of other people with dogs left in their parked cars while they run errands. I really don't see what the big deal is if the cars are in shade and they have water. Of course, if I saw someone else's dog in a dangerous situation of being in a hot car or who was in distress, I would call the cops.
People who do the dog show circuit haul around their dogs in crates in their vehicles. While on the road, there will be times when the dogs are in the vehicles for long periods of time. Their dogs seem to be okay and not stressed out. I also know a lot of antique dealers that take their dogs with them everywhere. And their dogs are happy and well adjusted animals.
So Moving Forward, what was the point of your thread? Are you upset that someone you know is leaving their dog in their car for long periods of time?
You appear to have missed the point of my post: it is dangerous to leave a dog unattended in a car due to the risk of being stolen. It has nothing to do with how "happy" a dog is. Call the MSPCA or the Animal Rescue League or your local police department. See what they say. The fact that people do it doesn't make it right, or safe for the dog. Would you leave your child unattended in a car? No, probably not, right? Again, the issue is vulnerability, not happiness or species.
As for the point of my thread, I explained that in my second response.
You appear to have missed the point of my post: it is dangerous to leave a dog unattended in a car due to the risk of being stolen. It has nothing to do with how "happy" a dog is. Call the MSPCA or the Animal Rescue League or your local police department. See what they say. The fact that people do it doesn't make it right, or safe for the dog. Would you leave your child unattended in a car? No, probably not, right? Again, the issue is vulnerability, not happiness or species.
As for the point of my thread, I explained that in my second response.
I am going to disagree and say you aren't a bad person for leaving your dog unattended in your car. Yes, auto theft should be a concern, but a lot of places you have a higher risk of being involved in a fatal accident on your way than having your car stolen when you leave it parked for ten minutes.
It is one thing to eliminate needless risks, like not wearing a seatbelt or bicycle helmet and another entirely to eliminate every conceivable risk. Everything carries some chance of catastrophic failure, either as a result of your actions or inaction. People need to choose the balance or risk and inconvenience that they are comfortable with. Anyone who earnestly believes that no benefit outweighs the risk of losing a life (dog or child) would be unable to do simple things like drive, fly, or walk on the sidewalk.
As for comparing leaving a dog in the car versus a child--would you ever consider leaving your child home alone all day? Probably not. Would you consider leaving your dog home alone all day--I would guess most people who work end up doing this. There is, of course, the chance that your home will be burglarized while you are away and your dog either stolen or harmed, but many still choose to leave their dogs unattended at home.
All that being said--I don't think I would choose to leave my dog unattended in my car (if I had a dog) because I would be afraid about cooking the dog or making it miserable being trapped in such a small area. If I couldn't take the dog in with me, I would probably just leave it at home.
General response (not to anybody in particular): People believe that the risk is so low as to be negligible. But, in fact, it's not. It happens every single day. The difference between leaving the dog at home and leaving the dog in the car is that the dog is out of harm's way at home, but not in the car. It is subjecting a dog to possible harm when there is no need to do so. The possibility of burglary can't be compared to the possibility of theft, because burglary is one of the risks in life that we have limited power over, while dog theft from a car is not.
As for being a "bad person." I never said anybody was a "bad person." What I said was that it is irresponsible to leave a dog unattended in a car. It seems like simple math to me: We are responsible for ensuring the safety and wellbeing of our dogs. To leave a dog in a car unattended is to knowingly subject the dog to possible harm, when it is in our power to prevent it. Hence: Such behavior is irresponsible. As I said, just because somebody has the habit of doing this doesn't magically make it okay. It's one thing if a person does it because they don't know/understand the risk. It's quite another--and unacceptable, for the reasons above, in my view--if they know the risk and take it anyway, because their convenience is more important to them than their dog's safety. To say, "Oh, it's not going to happen to me or my dog" or "That's living life in a paranoid state" is simply childish and living in denial. Because it's a very real threat and, too often, the dog dies a horrible death.
General response (not to anybody in particular): People believe that the risk is so low as to be negligible. But, in fact, it's not. It happens every single day. The difference between leaving the dog at home and leaving the dog in the car is that the dog is out of harm's way at home, but not in the car. It is subjecting a dog to possible harm when there is no need to do so. The possibility of burglary can't be compared to the possibility of theft, because burglary is one of the risks in life that we have limited power over, while dog theft from a car is not.
As for being a "bad person." I never said anybody was a "bad person." What I said was that it is irresponsible to leave a dog unattended in a car. It seems like simple math to me: We are responsible for ensuring the safety and wellbeing of our dogs. To leave a dog in a car unattended is to knowingly subject the dog to possible harm, when it is in our power to prevent it. Hence: Such behavior is irresponsible. As I said, just because somebody has the habit of doing this doesn't magically make it okay. It's one thing if a person does it because they don't know/understand the risk. It's quite another--and unacceptable, for the reasons above, in my view--if they know the risk and take it anyway, because their convenience is more important to them than their dog's safety. To say, "Oh, it's not going to happen to me or my dog" or "That's living life in a paranoid state" is simply childish and living in denial. Because it's a very real threat and, too often, the dog dies a horrible death.
I'll respond specifically. I can understand that it is devastating to lose a pet, especially through something careless like leaving the pet unattended in a car. I must disagree that the risk is not too small to be considered negligible. In many cases I believe that the risk is small enough to be negligible and can be considerably smaller than many other risks either actively or passively engaged. My point was not that risks should be taken lightly because their probabilities are so low "or it won't happen to me", but rather that risks should be approached rationally and with the maximal awareness possible. Many people fail to recognize the large number of risks associated with many of their behaviors and mistakenly believe that they would never sacrifice the safety of their loved ones for convenience. A prime example is driving, an activity that is fairly dangerous and almost entirely a form of convenience. I know that it would be safer for me to walk the mile or so to the grocery store, but I actively (or usually passively) choose to drive there because I have better things to do with the next three hours (clearly I don't, but the idea is there). I do not consider such behavior irresponsible. Similarly, I do not consider it irresponsible to leave a dog unattended in a car in a safe neighborhood in good weather for a short period of time. My point was that there is always a trade off between safety and convenience, so just be aware and comfortable with your decision.
As for why I believe the risk to be negligible, I will provide an example. Let's say I drive in my car 10 miles down the road to Wellesley with my imaginary dog, leave him in the car unattended for a full hour, then return home. Was that unnecessarily dangerous?
In 2004 (I use this year, because I have access to statistics) there were a whopping 13 reported auto thefts in Wellesley (4 in 2005, 3 in 2006). If we estimate there are 5000 cars parked there at any given time (about 0.25/person) that means that in a given year, there are about 43 800 000 car-hours parked. The probability that my car would be stolen works out to 13/43 800 000 = 3*10^-7. Those are pretty long odds.
In 2004 in the state of Massachusetts, there were 9.18 incapacitating injuries per 100million miles driven, which works out to a rate of 9*10^-8/mile. I don't have any specific data for Wellesley, but I'm confident the stretch of 128 I'd be taking isn't going to be too much better than the average. For a 20 mile round trip journey, that works out to a probability of 1.83*10^-6 of being involved in a serious injury accident while driving, which is about 5 times greater than the probability of getting my car/dog stolen. I can completely understand if you think it is too high a risk to take, but I hope I've shown that it's not an outrageously irresponsible risk and that my earlier argument was not childish.
I'm not even saying I'm right about this particular situation (dogs in cars in MA), only that it is something reasonable, intelligent people can disagree about without either being irresponsible or paranoid with fear. Maybe a 1 in 10^7 risk is unacceptable for you and my threshold is closer to 1 in 10^5.
"As for why I believe the risk to be negligible, I will provide an example. Let's say I drive in my car 10 miles down the road to Wellesley with my imaginary dog, leave him in the car unattended for a full hour, then return home. Was that unnecessarily dangerous?"
Yes. Just because your dog wasn't stolen that time doesn't mean he won't be stolen next time.
"In 2004 (I use this year, because I have access to statistics) there were a whopping 13 reported auto thefts in Wellesley (4 in 2005, 3 in 2006). If we estimate there are 5000 cars parked there at any given time (about 0.25/person) that means that in a given year, there are about 43 800 000 car-hours parked. The probability that my car would be stolen works out to 13/43 800 000 = 3*10^-7. Those are pretty long odds."
I'm not talking about stolen cars. I'm talking about dogs stolen out of cars.
"In 2004 in the state of Massachusetts, there were 9.18 incapacitating injuries per 100million miles driven, which works out to a rate of 9*10^-8/mile. I don't have any specific data for Wellesley, but I'm confident the stretch of 128 I'd be taking isn't going to be too much better than the average. For a 20 mile round trip journey, that works out to a probability of 1.83*10^-6 of being involved in a serious injury accident while driving, which is about 5 times greater than the probability of getting my car/dog stolen. I can completely understand if you think it is too high a risk to take, but I hope I've shown that it's not an outrageously irresponsible risk and that my earlier argument was not childish."
Again, there are some risks we have control over. If we have to use a car to get to work, then the risk of getting injured is not something we can control. Leaving a dog in a car, vulnerable to being stolen, is something we have control over.
Also: I believe I stated that my earlier reply was not to you, specifically--but that I was speaking generally. So I was not accusing you, in particular, of being childish. I was making a categorical statement that the type of logic that assumes that because something has not occurred in my own experience means it will never occur is childish, in terms of faulty logic. And especially important because a life may be at stake.
"I'm not even saying I'm right about this particular situation (dogs in cars in MA), only that it is something reasonable, intelligent people can disagree about without either being irresponsible or paranoid with fear. Maybe a 1 in 10^7 risk is unacceptable for you and my threshold is closer to 1 in 10^5."
Again, it is not "paranoid" to protect one's animal from possible theft or abuse. It only appears "paranoid" to people who really are not aware of the very real dangers, played out every day, to animals who are left unattended. I will not take any risk that it is in my power to avoid, in terms of my animals' safety--regardless of math.
You appear to have missed the point of my post: it is dangerous to leave a dog unattended in a car due to the risk of being stolen. It has nothing to do with how "happy" a dog is. Call the MSPCA or the Animal Rescue League or your local police department. See what they say. The fact that people do it doesn't make it right, or safe for the dog. Would you leave your child unattended in a car? No, probably not, right? Again, the issue is vulnerability, not happiness or species.
As for the point of my thread, I explained that in my second response.
My dogs are NOT going to get stolen out of my car. They are mutts and not friendly to strangers. Actually, there is a much better chance of my car getting stolen if it is parked without my dogs in it because I own Civic hatchbacks.
The guy I mentioned before, no one would want his dog either. She's a large ungainly mutt and she wouldn't be good for resale or as a gift.
Where would I take my dogs with me? Well if I go antiquing up in NH and short errands around my town... which is ranked one of the safer cities in the country. I know where the rough areas are in the area and I just never go to those areas.
I can understand the need to worry about potential theft if the dog in a parked car is some expensive pug or other designer breed, beautifully groomed and with a friendly disposition. But I see dogs left in parked cars at the Stop n Shop parking lot all of the time, but I don't think that they are in any danger of being stolen. There are too many people around that would question a car being broken into, let alone a thief trying to run away with a protesting dog. I don't understand the irresistible appeal of a hostile dog in a parked car to a thief, especially if the dog is a mutt.
But anyway, I feel that the only laws about dogs in cars is if they are in a car that is sitting in full summer sunlight and without water. On a day such as today, I don't think that the police would care if a dog is left in a parked car.
Anyway, I am not changing my dog parenting skills. You take care of your dogs your way, and I will take care of my dogs in the way I always have.
Dogs are not stolen from cars only because of their looks. They are often stolen--from cars, from yards--to be used as "bait" in dog fighting rings. In fact, the more "unfriendly" a dog is, the better a challenge that dog will provide to fighting dogs in training. It's not a death that anyone would want their dog to endure. As I said earlier, this was a concern on the part of the police officer I spoke with on the Cape. And it is a real concern on the part of people who work in rescue and have direct experience of the matter.
In any case, there's no reason to be defensive. I'm not trying to tell people how to take care of their dogs. As someone who has worked in rescue for a number of years, I was merely offering information that might help someone in understanding the risks that are incurred in leaving dogs unattended--anywhere.
I love these people that compare a dog to a child. They probably don't have children and think of their dog as there human child replacement. Don't leave your dog alone in a car? That's ridiculous. Just use common sense. If the dog is happy and comfortable in the car. I see no problem at all with it. My dog hates to be left home alone. I have a golden and they are in need of a lot of social contact and exercise. Not to mention if there is a thunder storm she is home alone terrified. If you can bring your dog to work or for a ride to the store and it makes the dog happy, gets it more walks and social contact what is the problem with that? Leaving a dog alone in a car is not the same thing as leaving a child alone. Just make sure the car is not too hot or cold and it makes the dog happier than if it were home all alone.
I also had a friend'd dog stolen from inside her house while she was not home. I would ask the people who put children and dogs on the same level , would you leave a child home alone? Because that in fact is a crime if they are under 10.
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