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Old 08-13-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: East Boston, MA
9,724 posts, read 17,688,073 times
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Yeah, I’m surprised to see this from you, Massnative. Without even getting into the weeds, this guy represents a brand of conservatism (evangelical, actively anti-abortion, and extremely anti-gay) that doesn’t play well here in Massachusetts. I can absolutely see why Baker has lost support from some conservatives, but Lively is not the type of candidate that would be a palatable alternative for most. Not in MA anyway. I’d understand the temptation to make comparisons to Trump in that many peopl wrote him off big time, but he still lost huge in MA and Baker is no Hillary Clinton. Lively doesn’t really deserve the press and I can see why the Republican Party doesn’t want to affiliate with him based on some of his strong social conservative stances.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:34 PM
 
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Fake New Media: Scott Lively is a racist homophobe.


Reality: Scott Lively closed his law practice to open up an inner city mission in one of the worst neighborhoods in Springfield, serving the most disadvantaged (and largely minorities). Him and his wife took in a homosexual dying of AIDS, and cared for him during the last days of his life while the rest of the world had forgotten him. In addition, Lively last had a black female running mate.






Fake News Media: Scott Lively killed gays in Uganda.


Reality: Scott Lively was the target of a frivolous lawsuit by George Soros funded "SMUG" which was thrown out by the federal judge. Scott Lively is a pastor, and he preached the biblical truth to the Ugandans after being called upon while dealing with a vicious gang of sexual predators who targeted children and other innocents. He never advocated for the death penalty against homosexuals, but for rehabilitation. He was unfairly scapegoated, and was absolutely right in calling out a very dark element of their society.








Fake News Media: Scott Lively blamed homosexuals for the Holocaust.


Reality: He wrote a book about homosexual involvement in the Nazi Party. Stuff has always been well documented, heck I even remember learning about that in high school.








Fake News Media: Scott Lively is a controversial extremist.


Reality: Most of Scott Lively's positions echo that of mainstream Republicans, far more than Charlie Baker in fact. Traditionally, even plenty of Democrats are closer to Lively's stances than Baker's.












But did any of you actually do research or look at his website? Due to his conservative views and lack of apology for them, he has been the target of a vicious smear campaign.




As for Baker, he continues to be a traitor. He has spent more money and effort defeating conservatives and even those who helped him in the past, than actually promoting conservatism in the state. Stuff that is too extreme for even many on the left ie. sanctuary cities and transgender bathrooms, he turned out in favor of after he campaigned against them. Supposedly a fiscal conservative, legislators somehow wound up with a 40% pay hike. Baker is a fraud.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,052 posts, read 1,263,543 times
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Registered Republican here. I'm supporting Baker all the way. We need a moderate common-sense conservative instead of someone who has a religious right wing platform/agenda. All this RINO talk has led to the decimation of the once proud Republican tradition of New England.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:49 PM
 
13,482 posts, read 10,243,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Yeah, I’m surprised to see this from you, Massnative. Without even getting into the weeds, this guy represents a brand of conservatism (evangelical, actively anti-abortion, and extremely anti-gay) that doesn’t play well here in Massachusetts. I can absolutely see why Baker has lost support from some conservatives, but Lively is not the type of candidate that would be a palatable alternative for most. Not in MA anyway. I’d understand the temptation to make comparisons to Trump in that many peopl wrote him off big time, but he still lost huge in MA and Baker is no Hillary Clinton. Lively doesn’t really deserve the press and I can see why the Republican Party doesn’t want to affiliate with him based on some of his strong social conservative stances.
I agree that he doesn't have much chance in Massachusetts, but that these small random (while unscientific) polls are showing this strong for him; suggest that maybe they ought to start paying a little more attention to him. That he won that much of the delegates, suggests significant discontent among Republicans. Remember the those who vote in the Republican Primary are very different from those voting in the general election. But why doesn't he deserve the press??? Because you don't approve of his views? Because his views differ from mainstream Massachusetts??? Would quality journalism ignore him? See the problem here?


That is where the Trump comparison came from; in how the media and "professional" polls dropped the ball and have enormous reparations to make before they restore their credibility, while "talking to random people at Market Basket" shows an entire different story. Lively is actually quite different from Trump. Many similar political stances, but very different background and persona. What turned people off from Trump, does not hold true at all for Lively.
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:53 PM
 
13,482 posts, read 10,243,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
Registered Republican here. I'm supporting Baker all the way. We need a moderate common-sense conservative instead of someone who has a religious right wing platform/agenda. All this RINO talk has led to the decimation of the once proud Republican tradition of New England.
Not just a RINO, Baker is to the left of most Democrats. Any other state he would be a Democrat. Again, study up on his platform rather than listening to propaganda. He has many good ideas re. all issues facing the state. Due to his background and many personal hardships, he is able to relate to the common man as well as the disadvantaged in ways that Baker never will.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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True colors coming out for all to see.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:37 PM
 
Location: East Boston, MA
9,724 posts, read 17,688,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
I agree that he doesn't have much chance in Massachusetts, but that these small random (while unscientific) polls are showing this strong for him; suggest that maybe they ought to start paying a little more attention to him. That he won that much of the delegates, suggests significant discontent among Republicans. Remember the those who vote in the Republican Primary are very different from those voting in the general election. But why doesn't he deserve the press??? Because you don't approve of his views? Because his views differ from mainstream Massachusetts??? Would quality journalism ignore him? See the problem here?


That is where the Trump comparison came from; in how the media and "professional" polls dropped the ball and have enormous reparations to make before they restore their credibility, while "talking to random people at Market Basket" shows an entire different story. Lively is actually quite different from Trump. Many similar political stances, but very different background and persona. What turned people off from Trump, does not hold true at all for Lively.
I should clarify - I don't think he deserves more press than he's getting - which as much as (maybe more than) any candidate with similarly long odds would get. I'd argue that his strange and polarizing history, combined with his strong stances and vocal inclination have actually gotten him more airtime than he might have otherwise received. He's had Globe headlines (which is more than you can say for Bob Massie) like Scott Lively says 'politicians are using addicts like cash cows' - a headline which many (if not most readers would actually agree with), WBUR has hosted him, and he's been mentioned in a lot of press about the election. It also seems contradictory to argue that he's both being ignored by the media and that the "fake news media" are painting him has a homophobic, murderous bigot. It's one or the other. Trump was painted as everything awful, but you couldn't argue that he didn't get the airtime. Same is true for Lively. He's getting the press, a lot of it focusing on his social conservatism, but it's just not as much as the heavy favorite which I think is normal.

Re: Lively's views vs. Trump's, I'd argue that while Lively's persona is more palatable for MA voters than Trump's, his stances on hot topics are arguably worse. Especially with regard to being evangelical, vocally anti-abortion, and anti-gay. A lot has been said about Trump being bigoted, but nobody would confuse him for an evangelical (something that scares even moderate Christians), he's flip-flopped on abortion (pro-choice in the past - seemingly pro-life now, but not a priority for him), and while his Supreme Court nominees and VP aren't exactly LGBTQ-friendly, Trump himself has actually mentioned support of the LGBTQ community. Economically speaking, I haven't seen much from Lively that would push fiscal conservatives to support him over Baker either.

Frankly, none of the challengers are getting a ton of press because none of them really stand a shot. I don't hear much about Jay Gonzalez, and you'd figure he'd get the second most coverage as the Democratic front-runner. I actually had to look up the Dem ticket to see that there's a guy named Bob Massie on it. Never heard his name until that point. I agree that polling is flawed and press (on both sides, it's not a "liberal media" issue) have done a lot to lose trust, but I don't think that the election here has been covered poorly. I just think it's typical for a runaway favorite to dominate headlines. Especially if he's an incumbent.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:07 PM
 
7,056 posts, read 2,789,344 times
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Lively should just be ignored. Hopefully he will take the hint and disappear back under the rock he came out from.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:15 PM
 
11,173 posts, read 11,052,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Not just a RINO, Baker is to the left of most Democrats. Any other state he would be a Democrat. Again, study up on his platform rather than listening to propaganda. He has many good ideas re. all issues facing the state. Due to his background and many personal hardships, he is able to relate to the common man as well as the disadvantaged in ways that Baker never will.
He literally believes HIV is a punishment from God to the homosexuals. He is abhorrent and to even consider him for a vote is abhorrent and frankly shameful.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:53 PM
 
13,482 posts, read 10,243,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
I should clarify - I don't think he deserves more press than he's getting - which as much as (maybe more than) any candidate with similarly long odds would get. I'd argue that his strange and polarizing history, combined with his strong stances and vocal inclination have actually gotten him more airtime than he might have otherwise received. He's had Globe headlines (which is more than you can say for Bob Massie) like Scott Lively says 'politicians are using addicts like cash cows' - a headline which many (if not most readers would actually agree with), WBUR has hosted him, and he's been mentioned in a lot of press about the election. It also seems contradictory to argue that he's both being ignored by the media and that the "fake news media" are painting him has a homophobic, murderous bigot. It's one or the other. Trump was painted as everything awful, but you couldn't argue that he didn't get the airtime. Same is true for Lively. He's getting the press, a lot of it focusing on his social conservatism, but it's just not as much as the heavy favorite which I think is normal.

Re: Lively's views vs. Trump's, I'd argue that while Lively's persona is more palatable for MA voters than Trump's, his stances on hot topics are arguably worse. Especially with regard to being evangelical, vocally anti-abortion, and anti-gay. A lot has been said about Trump being bigoted, but nobody would confuse him for an evangelical (something that scares even moderate Christians), he's flip-flopped on abortion (pro-choice in the past - seemingly pro-life now, but not a priority for him), and while his Supreme Court nominees and VP aren't exactly LGBTQ-friendly, Trump himself has actually mentioned support of the LGBTQ community. Economically speaking, I haven't seen much from Lively that would push fiscal conservatives to support him over Baker either.

Frankly, none of the challengers are getting a ton of press because none of them really stand a shot. I don't hear much about Jay Gonzalez, and you'd figure he'd get the second most coverage as the Democratic front-runner. I actually had to look up the Dem ticket to see that there's a guy named Bob Massie on it. Never heard his name until that point. I agree that polling is flawed and press (on both sides, it's not a "liberal media" issue) have done a lot to lose trust, but I don't think that the election here has been covered poorly. I just think it's typical for a runaway favorite to dominate headlines. Especially if he's an incumbent.

Lively did get some coverage back in April when he made the ballot, most of it negative and containing subjective catch phrases like the ones I mentioned (they did similar during his 2014 run); but there has been almost zilch since then other than that WBUR interview which didn't really do him any favors. That is my point. Some poster mentioned how they monitor polls. What polls? I have been unable to find a single one. That you mention the Democratic candidates not receiving any light either, that dawned on me as well. I do not read the Globe (and would assume that they'd cover the the Democratic challengers at least), but if you say they haven't that is equally disturbing. The news media has the responsibility to cover these races, regardless of whether there is an assumed winner or not. I mean, the Sox play the Orioles and you have at least 3 articles covering the upcoming game. Why don't they provide equal coverage to something that actually MATTERS?



As for the constant portrayal of Lively being a right wing religious wacko, I don't quite understand it. When looking at it where he stands on major issues of the day, I can't think of a single one that is significantly different from Reagan's (a man who took Massachusetts twice)! Even a Democrat like JFK's weren't really that different. The only thing that really stands out about Lively (over those others) is his religiosity and how much he brings it into the campaign. I don't necessarily see that as a negative, as long as he doesn't cross the line with it. If he truly is the God fearing man he claims to be, that should at least keep him honest and provide him motivation to care for the state's well being over the overwhelming temptations that political office can bring.





Either way, I will say this...I believe that Scott Lively is an honest and sincere man with good ideas for the state, and that he is not the hateful bigot that the left (and Baker) is trying to paint him as.


Maybe I will be proven wrong, and derogatory (factual) information might develop on him and I'll change my mind on his worthiness as a governor.





But...


This race is sort of personal to me. While there was a limited amount of news coverage regarding Charlie Baker's partially successful attempt to purge conservatives and others he didn't perceive to be loyalists from the party; it went much deeper than that. Baker and his team were involved in some pretty shady, malicious and immoral actions targeting many but to include an individual who I have a great amount of respect for on a personal, professional and political level. Little do I know, it could be business as usual and could the majority of politicians at that level resort to behavior so low as a necessity for their survival. I just cannot live to accept it however, and I want Baker OUT. If Lively does turn out to be a total nut job like many are claiming, I would be totally OK voting for him just to let the Democrat be a shoo-in (even if it is somebody as wavering as Gonzalez). At least give somebody else a chance.

Last edited by massnative71; 08-13-2018 at 09:26 PM..
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