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Old 08-14-2018, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,198 posts, read 1,361,389 times
Reputation: 979

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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Not just a RINO, Baker is to the left of most Democrats. Any other state he would be a Democrat. Again, study up on his platform rather than listening to propaganda. He has many good ideas re. all issues facing the state. Due to his background and many personal hardships, he is able to relate to the common man as well as the disadvantaged in ways that Baker never will.
I am not sure about how Baker is 'left of most Democrats' - do you have an article, study that shows that his positions are particularly liberal?

As for studying up on his platform rather than listening to propaganda, I infer that you are referring to Lively. If that is the case, then I see the following issues with him:

1. His type of social conservationism does not mesh with mine. I don't care about what other people do in their lives, whether it be same sex relationships, abortions, etc.

2. His rhetoric is incendiary. I am looking for a pragmatic, centrist leader who can get things done.

3. He does not represent the majority views of the voters in the Commonwealth and is pretty much unelectable (and rightfully so) in the general election. The band of die hard, socially conservative voters notwithstanding, we're looking at a lopsided loss against the Democrat opponent.

As seen from your subsequent posts, you have a very personal agenda against Baker. I am not questioning whether you are right or wrong, however you won't find many readers swayed by these types of appeals.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:52 PM
 
3,798 posts, read 2,344,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
I am not sure about how Baker is 'left of most Democrats' - do you have an article, study that shows that his positions are particularly liberal?
By modern conservative standards, nearly everyone is left of center - Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. Hell, even William Buckley would be derided as a centerist RINO in today's climate as I suspect he'd be a bit too educated and moderate for their liking.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
10,154 posts, read 9,753,295 times
Reputation: 9319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
By modern conservative standards, nearly everyone is left of center - Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. Hell, even William Buckley would be derided as a centerist RINO in today's climate as I suspect he'd be a bit too educated and moderate for their liking.
Buckley was a Neo-con and thus would correctly be considered rather left.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:58 PM
 
Location: New England
2,190 posts, read 1,763,855 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
By modern conservative standards, nearly everyone is left of center - Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. Hell, even William Buckley would be derided as a centerist RINO in today's climate as I suspect he'd be a bit too educated and moderate for their liking.
I believe that Bush Sr. admitted to voting for Clinton. Busch was honestly similar to Baker in policy, though republicans at the time did pander to the religious right that doesn't really exist in Massachusetts.

But it's hard to compare trump with any recent president. Though he has found an unique base, and he is really skilled at pandering and playing the media. Have no idea what his actual values are though, Trump seems to me to be someone who went for power without principals. He only said what he believed that his base wants to hear.

I always find it funny the line some supporters used to say about him not being a politician. He's more of a politician then any real one.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:28 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
39,329 posts, read 30,739,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
By modern conservative standards, nearly everyone is left of center - Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. Hell, even William Buckley would be derided as a centerist RINO in today's climate as I suspect he'd be a bit too educated and moderate for their liking.


Yup. The Republican party has shifted so far right that all these would be considered RINOs.


Most of the Democratic party, sadly, have shifted fairly far right as well. That's why they are doing so badly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
I always find it funny the line some supporters used to say about him not being a politician. He's more of a politician then any real one.


Nah, he's more what they HATE about politicians then real ones. Pandering, not really having a position, being divisive at every turn, racking up massive deficits for future years for short term pandering, funneling wealth to the elite, etc etc etc. And so called "conservatives" eat it up, which is especially hilarious considering the deficits he is racking up.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:10 AM
 
2,509 posts, read 1,296,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Most of the Democratic party, sadly, have shifted fairly far right as well. That's why they are doing so badly.
You don't think this overly PC culture of recent times has anything to do with it?
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:17 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
39,329 posts, read 30,739,496 times
Reputation: 36900
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
You don't think this overly PC culture of recent times has anything to do with it?
I don't know what you mean by overly PC culture, so I can't comment.


I would hope most people would want to be correct, so someone thinking there is a negative connotation to being politically correct, is well, a red flag. Generally when someone says "I'm not PC" it seems to be they're the type to generally be proud of being a jerk. It's up there with the anti "Social Justice Warrior" types. Well, what type of person is against social justice? Not a good person. I'll leave it at that.


I think the biggest reason why Dems haven't done well is they've gone so far right (abandoned labor and progressive movements) that most progressives haven't gotten energized, that, and they haven't mastered "dumbing down" their points into sound bites that fit the modern 24 hr news cycle which has really hampered political discourse in society. Dems need to get back to democratic values and learn how to play the modern media game, and they need not to be Republican light.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:22 AM
 
2,509 posts, read 1,296,082 times
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I mean overly PC like this is headline news these days:
https://www.masslive.com/news/index....ool_cheer.html

I mean is that a dumb thing to say on video? Yeah
Was it a joke? Most likely
Should it be headline news every day of the week? come on!
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:32 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
39,329 posts, read 30,739,496 times
Reputation: 36900
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
I mean overly PC like this is headline news these days:
https://www.masslive.com/news/index....ool_cheer.html

I mean is that a dumb thing to say on video? Yeah
Was it a joke? Most likely
Should it be headline news every day of the week? come on!


Jokes are funny. There is nothing funny about saying "white power" on a school video.
There is nothing "overly PC" about pointing it out and condemning it.
That actually should be a minimal ethical standard in our society.


Hey, I grew up using the R word for the cognitively disabled as an insult, and the F word for homosexuality as an insult. It was accepted in the 80s. It shouldn't have been, but it was, we learned (hopefully) as a society the impacts these words have and trained ourselves not to use them. It's progress. It's part of becoming a better person and a better society.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:37 AM
 
2,509 posts, read 1,296,082 times
Reputation: 2781
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Hey, I grew up using the R word for the cognitively disabled as an insult, and the F word for homosexuality as an insult. It was accepted in the 80s. It shouldn't have been, but it was, we learned (hopefully) as a society the impacts these words have and trained ourselves not to use them. It's progress. It's part of becoming a better person and a better society.
You wouldn't make headline news if you did........Not just yet anyways.

If you don't believe the medias hyper focus on these "crimes" is aiding in the racial divide (real or perceived) then you just have your head so deep in the sand.
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