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Old 08-15-2018, 07:48 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,727 posts, read 29,446,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
You wouldn't make headline news if you did........Not just yet anyways.

If you don't believe the medias hyper focus on these "crimes" is aiding in the racial divide (real or perceived) then you just have your head so deep in the sand.


I'm no fan of the corporate run media system we have, but what worsens the divide is not bringing these things to light and not talking about them and pretending these things just aren't an issue in society and they don't impact people in a very real sense.


Bringing these things out into the open is the exact opposite of burying one's head in the sand. Pointing out racism doesn't "aid" the racial divide, it exposes it. Until it's exposed, it cannot be addressed.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:08 AM
 
2,277 posts, read 1,153,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I'm no fan of the corporate run media system we have, but what worsens the divide is not bringing these things to light and not talking about them and pretending these things just aren't an issue in society and they don't impact people in a very real sense.


Bringing these things out into the open is the exact opposite of burying one's head in the sand. Pointing out racism doesn't "aid" the racial divide, it exposes it. Until it's exposed, it cannot be addressed.
Totally agree, But when is it going too far. You know when there are big hollywood movies and shows advertised in prime time are dogging white people, Most recent I can think of is Kevin heart in Jumanji being shaken when he was in a trance and came out of it to find someone was joking that he was now a white person and he lost it... There are 100's more incidents if you want me to go on.

it just seems like its an unfair shift from what once was xxxx years ago, to now a society of people who the narrative is that white people, men particularly are fair game to insult.

If we are talking equality, lets be equal. If we have headline news everyday of incident like this. then how come we are quiet about the reverse?

It seems so bizarre to me that in order to correct a wrong, we have to shame and use the same tactics that the "other side" is fighting so hard to get away from. Don't you think?
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:33 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,727 posts, read 29,446,959 times
Reputation: 36261
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
Totally agree, But when is it going too far. You know when there are big hollywood movies and shows advertised in prime time are dogging white people, Most recent I can think of is Kevin heart in Jumanji being shaken when he was in a trance and came out of it to find someone was joking that he was now a white person and he lost it... There are 100's more incidents if you want me to go on.

it just seems like its an unfair shift from what once was xxxx years ago, to now a society of people who the narrative is that white people, men particularly are fair game to insult.

If we are talking equality, lets be equal. If we have headline news everyday of incident like this. then how come we are quiet about the reverse?

It seems so bizarre to me that in order to correct a wrong, we have to shame and use the same tactics that the "other side" is fighting so hard to get away from. Don't you think?


I don't have a TV or watch TV (I watch some Netflix at times) so I can't comment on mainstream media stuff like that.


But shaming people for being sexist, or misogynistic, or homophobic, or racist I don't think it an inherit negative. Shame won't cure things, but calling out unacceptable behavior does have merit. Remaining silent is signaling acceptance in many ways.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:54 AM
 
Location: East Boston, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
It just seems like its an unfair shift from what once was xxxx years ago, to now a society of people who the narrative is that white people, men particularly are fair game to insult.
As a white man, I don't see the issue, and I don't think a person of color joking about whiteness is even close to a white person joking about person of color's skin color, ethnicity, etc. So when you're making a joke about a white man, you're not also belittling some longstanding plight or unfair inequality that we've had to face. A "white power" video may be a "joke," but people have historically dealt with and continue to deal with people who actually believe that whites are a superior race. So someone believing in "white power" is a very real threat to a person of color, even if the video itself was intended to be a joke.

The Kevin Hart bit from Jumanji is a great example. Why is that Ok? Because if you were to take it seriously, what are the realistic implications and "problems" with being white? None of the stereotypes about white people are based on actual disadvantages or traumas that we as a race face. It's light. If the joke was reversed, and a white character woke up and they joked he was black, the stereotypes sting because there's truth - the picture would likely be that the character is now more disadvantaged than he was. There's a stinging truth to that, and that's why it's not equal.

White people (particularly men) haven't spent centuries as a subservient race to anyone. We haven't been stolen en masse from our native lands and enslaved. We haven't had, in this century, to fight in our own country to be legally viewed as equal to anyone else. We currently have a longer life expectancy, better access to healthcare, lower incarceration rates, higher wages, and better employment odds than anyone else in this country. So it should be obvious that a joke about white people is not the same as a joke about people of color.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:21 AM
 
2,277 posts, read 1,153,334 times
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Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
So it should be obvious that a joke about white people is not the same as a joke about people of color.
I don't think it is that obvious, and just pointing out as to why some white people feel that it is indeed not fair. In reality we as the working class, all creed, all color should both be fighting this machine of of power in the current climate. The racial stuff is a distraction. We are all the same no matter what color we are, it is our rank in society that is the true differentiation. Media is a tool to keep us sedated and dumb, and lately more distracted. People have more information at their fingertips now. So the machine needs you to be fed constant distractions...
Okay im out before i get evaporated like an atom.
but really not trying to sound like some Behold the pale horse monger but...... This is actually the problem.
I could care less what color someone is. It's what side of wall they fall.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:43 AM
 
Location: East Boston, MA
9,870 posts, read 17,846,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
I don't think it is that obvious, and just pointing out as to why some white people feel that it is indeed not fair. In reality we as the working class, all creed, all color should both be fighting this machine of of power in the current climate. The racial stuff is a distraction. We are all the same no matter what color we are, it is our rank in society that is the true differentiation. Media is a tool to keep us sedated and dumb, and lately more distracted. People have more information at their fingertips now. So the machine needs you to be fed constant distractions...
Okay im out before i get evaporated like an atom.
but really not trying to sound like some Behold the pale horse monger but...... This is actually the problem.
I could care less what color someone is. It's what side of wall they fall.
Honestly, I don't think the big picture (bolded) is something we disagree on, and I've appreciated the relatively civil disagreement so far given the hot topic.

I understand why some white people bristle at it - but I hope that they can use that bristling to understand why being sensitive to how the things we say impact others isn't being "too PC." If a joke about white people in a movie upsets a white person a little bit, imagine how it would feel if it simultaneously served as a reminder of the hardships and disadvantages that your people currently and historically faced? That's why a white power "joke" is nothing to brush off as just humor. It's publicly making light of something that's currently very much an issue for people of color.

I don't believe the racial stuff is a distraction - it's very real for a lot of people. We're not all the same and that's absolutely OK. Embrace the differences - I'm glad we're not all the same. But you're right, media is getting really tricky and it's exacerbating tensions. It's amazing how much differently a one on one, in-person conversation goes between two people with big diffrences compared to online forums, social media, comment sections, and on TV. People are generally decent and reasonable, and we live in an environment that everything is under the microscope and the worst of the worst seems to get the spotlight, and it's usually divisive. Hopefully we can reverse that trend.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:19 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,727 posts, read 29,446,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Honestly, I don't think the big picture (bolded) is something we disagree on, and I've appreciated the relatively civil disagreement so far given the hot topic.
.


Gee Pee is right on that point. But it is wrong to imply that it is all socioeconomic. First, the privilege of a white person of lower socioeconomic status is not the same as a POC of the same status. There is privilege in just being white, even poor white. Second, lots of the entrenchment of socioeconomic status of lots of our communities of color are entrenched because of institutionalized racism.


While there are tons of similarities in plights and there need to be shared grounds in these battles, the experiences are not all the same.


I'm not going to look for the comic, but there is one out there where an advisor is speaking to a king on a balcony of a surrounded castle who is telling him (paraphrasing): Sire, you don't have to defeat them, you just have to convince those with the pitchforks that those with the torches are trying to take away their pitchforks. It's what is happening with gun rights and Christmas and other such junk.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:22 AM
 
2,277 posts, read 1,153,334 times
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I agree on most points. But where we lose eachother is when you assume that no whites or people who statistically classify as whites are or families were never able to feel hardship is plain irresponsible. Most of my family has come here from famine in a country that was torn apart in a war a generation before them. They were treaded and lived essentially like poverty you have probably never seen, Only to come to a new place to face ridicule by the very people you think they should be lumped in with. Telling these people how much privilege they came from is a tough sell. Thats my point on that matter. Never argued that some do have it better than others. just don't judge on the color of ones skin is all.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:26 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,727 posts, read 29,446,959 times
Reputation: 36261
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee View Post
I agree on most points. But where we lose eachother is when you assume that no whites or people who statistically classify as whites are or families were never able to feel hardship is plain irresponsible. Most of my family has come here from famine in a country that was torn apart in a war a generation before them. They were treaded and lived essentially like poverty you have probably never seen, Only to come to a new place to face ridicule by the very people you think they should be lumped in with. Telling these people how much privilege they came from is a tough sell. Thats my point on that matter. Never argued that some do have it better than others. just don't judge on the color of ones skin is all.


I have never seen anyone assume this or say this.


Remarking that white privilege is real is not at all saying or implying in any way, shape, or form that white people don't have hardships, barriers to entry, or tough times.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:34 AM
 
2,277 posts, read 1,153,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I have never seen anyone assume this or say this.


Remarking that white privilege is real is not at all saying or implying in any way, shape, or form that white people don't have hardships, barriers to entry, or tough times.
As a blanket statement, it sure is.
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