What's the best ways to redevelopment malls? (Boston, Cambridge: movie theater, high schools)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by GeePee

Legacy place is jammed packed every day.

Legacy place is more than a mall though because of the bowling, movie theater and Whole Foods. It’s also set up in a box shape to minimize having to walk around in a mall layout searching for stores. That’s a large scale plaza like South Bay. I was thinking of a mall without a roof basically.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd

I think the malls could take design plans from casinos in Vegas that have restaurants and shops in settings that appear they are outdoors complete with lighting to make a sky scene.

Lets pray they do not. What an incredible waste of energy.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by redplum33

Indoor malls don't have many entrances/exits. There are times where you may only want to go to one store and it's not anywhere near an entrance/exit. Many people won't bother as it's a hassle.

There's also the hangout factor - especially at food courts. Many indoor malls have become a magnet for gangs/undesirables.

Not really. Food courts work in big malls near urban areas (e.g. Cambridgeside.Prudential Center.South Shore Plaza) If were being frank a large portion, if not a majority of the youth who shop there are ‘urban’. Irban kids spend a lot more money on fashion and are more likely to shop in person than online because 1) the malls are easily accessible to them and 2) it’s a safe and welcoming hang out spot. The malls know the demographic and it’s reflected in their stores. The demographic of the youth in general has changed a lot in the past 30 years, and the disposable income of those urban kids has grown. That’s why you see 3 foot lockers for every 1 American Eagle or PAC-Sun. You never see Billabong or Hurley in malls around Boston but you see plenty Champs/Expressions.

I know Cambridgeside had an issue with shoplifting years back-they did a slight rebranding. I do know South Shore has had one or two shootings in the past decade (but I don’t think they were in the food court). And those are very valid complaints. But I would not label them gang hangouts, like it’s some back alley or some desolate Brockton park after dusk- I’ve never been scared or uncomfortable in south shore. I don’t see police or even mall security. I’ve never seen or heard anything ‘go down’ in either mall. It’s just a more urban clientele really. That being said- I still see plenty white bread families and teeny boppers. I think a food court is actually a signal of a successful mall. To me it’s the dingy small ones or weird faux malls that lack food courts.

[mdovell]

It's changed that's fore sure. I remember when the south shore plaza was kinda gritty but now it's mostly about the traffic. Can kids meet each other to fight? Sure but that also happened at Foxwoods. With the amount of cameras and security that can be hired shopping plazas are safe.

I think most can agree that the massive amounts of parking just don't add value. Eastfield Mass in springfield is supposed to be a 200 million dollar project. The box stores remaining are staying and the movie theater (do they ever close?). But they were waiting for Sears to file for bankruptcy. Sears owns practically 33% of the space in the project needed. But then there's debates about what is demoed vs new. I was in retail long ago and I can tell you usually chains want new buildings because they can customize it a bit. When a chain takes over another it isn't 100% of what they want. For example in Brockton the Lowe's was a HQ (remember them?) and the Home Depot I think was a Bradlees. This is why you might see a loading dock door where there isn't a loading dock itself etc. Ever go into a charter school when it's new? Kinda the same mentality.

The problems I see with traditional retail is that the lack of attention to details led to online stores rising. Way back when in the early 90s I saw some kiosk at Sears to order shoes. Way..way ahead of its time. Poof it was gone. There's too much in terms of safety, security and overall operations with traditional retail that doesn't add to ROI vs online. I'm not saying everything will go online but it does require more marketing and applicability for a regular store to operate.

[skeddy]

Jeff Bezos says Happy Holidays to all those malls.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Legacy place is more than a mall though because of the bowling, movie theater and Whole Foods. It’s also set up in a box shape to minimize having to walk around in a mall layout searching for stores. That’s a large scale plaza like South Bay. I was thinking of a mall without a roof basically.

So like Wrentham Outlets? Literally a mall without a roof. Patriot Place? Also a mall without a roof. People will go outside to shop year-round because they have forever. How different is a main street shopping district or downtown area from an outdoor mall? Some places, like Assembly Row in Somerville blur the line even more as they have apartments and condos above the stores. You have this in Maryland with National Harbor.

Movie Theaters have been a staple of indoor malls since indoor malls were a thing. I grew up going to Regal in Taunton (in the mall), and AMC at the Dartmouth Mall. And a lot of indoor malls have been including and/or are starting to include more entertainment venues, grocery stores, etc. Dave and Buster's has been an anchor at Providence Place for as long as I can remember. The Silver City Galleria has Round 1 which is bowling, arcade, billiards, Karaoke, etc. Indoor malls are realizing they have to have more than just shops to survive. The Natick Mall added condos for people who want to live in close proximity to those amenities. For decades malls have included everything from amusement park rides to aquariums. Having entertainment or homes at malls, indoor OR outdoor, is nothing new.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by lrfox

So like Wrentham Outlets? Literally a mall without a roof. Patriot Place? Also a mall without a roof. People will go outside to shop year-round because they have forever. How different is a main street shopping district or downtown area from an outdoor mall? Some places, like Assembly Row in Somerville blur the line even more as they have apartments and condos above the stores. You have this in Maryland with National Harbor.

Movie Theaters have been a staple of indoor malls since indoor malls were a thing. I grew up going to Regal in Taunton (in the mall), and AMC at the Dartmouth Mall. And a lot of indoor malls have been including and/or are starting to include more entertainment venues, grocery stores, etc. Dave and Buster's has been an anchor at Providence Place for as long as I can remember. The Silver City Galleria has Round 1 which is bowling, arcade, billiards, Karaoke, etc. Indoor malls are realizing they have to have more than just shops to survive. The Natick Mall added condos for people who want to live in close proximity to those amenities. For decades malls have included everything from amusement park rides to aquariums. Having entertainment or homes at malls, indoor OR outdoor, is nothing new.

I made an exception for Wrentham outlets. It only works because of their amazing bargains. Patriot Place is also a movie Theater and a whole football stadium of the countries most successful sports club. Unless Hanover is bringing outlet prices and or the draw of the New England Patriots I don't see any other working examples in MA. And I don't like PatriotPLace or Wrentham because theyre out of the way and I get cold easily.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I made an exception for Wrentham outlets. It only works because of their amazing bargains. Patriot Place is also a movie Theater and a whole football stadium of the countries most successful sports club. Unless Hanover is bringing outlet prices and or the draw of the New England Patriots I don't see any other working examples in MA. And I don't like PatriotPLace or Wrentham because theyre out of the way and I get cold easily.

Legacy Place is pretty outdoors, and pretty successful, or so it seems.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I made an exception for Wrentham outlets. It only works because of their amazing bargains. Patriot Place is also a movie Theater and a whole football stadium of the countries most successful sports club. Unless Hanover is bringing outlet prices and or the draw of the New England Patriots I don't see any other working examples in MA. And I don't like PatriotPLace or Wrentham because theyre out of the way and I get cold easily.

Eh, the stadium hosts between 8-12 Pats games a year (inc. preseason and playoffs), and 17 Revs games. That means it needs to draw a crowd somehow on the other 336 days in the year. People aren't flocking to Gillette to look at an empty stadium. And movie theater? How is a movie theater a unique feature? Movie theaters have been a part of the mall experience for a loooooong, long time. Failing malls everywhere have them.

Point is, if you create an outdoor mall experience in New England, it will work with the right ingredients. Those ingredients may be unique entertainment (i.e. bowling, movies, theater, etc.), or bargain prices (Wrentham), maybe it's cool dining experiences, condos and apartments on-site (Assembly), or having a grocery store as part of it (Legacy Place), or some combination of those things. Being transit-accessible doesn't hurt either.

Beyond Wrentham or Patriot Place, you have Legacy Place, Derby Street in Hingham, Colony Place in Plymouth, MarketStreet in Lynnfield, Assembly Row, The Hingham Shipyard, etc. Even Fall River replaced it's dead indoor mall (Harbour Mall) with a new, more successful outdoor retail center called SouthCoast Marketplace (complete with movie theater and a grocery store). South Bay in Boston is doing the same thing with condos, a new theater, etc. You might not care for them, but it's a model that's working here in New England.

[western mass and love it]

Even in the Berkshires there is an outdoor outlet mall. And trust me it is busy year round.