Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What is most baffling to me is that multiple billionaires coincidentally found this dumpy strip-mall massage parlor.
Yep, this is why I find it very naive to just think "hey poor old guy was just missing his wife and needed some relief." Of course there is something going on here. The cops thought so too.
1. He was very devoted to his wife while she was alive. At the age of 77, maybe he just wanted some sexual relief with no strings attached. What's wrong with that?
2. And how would he or any of the other clients know that those massage parlor workers were being forced to work against their wills??? There are many massage workers and prostitutes who sell sex willingly, because that is the the best paying work for their work skill set.
There is no reason for prostitution to be illegal. But it should be monitored in a way that makes sure that the sex workers are clean and disease free, and not being bullied by a pimp.
Anyway, as a woman, I am not at all offended by what Robert Kraft did.
You being a woman does not somehow qualify your apologetic stance.
Prostitution legalization, something which I support, is an entirely separate issue from Kraft engaging sex workers an an environment/condition which he knows, or should know having funded efforts, is highly likely to be a human trafficking enterprise.
This would be a non-story had he got caught with some high brow escort in a hotel room because the media and viewing public would, generally speaking, not take a morale high ground on the issue. He simply cannot plead ignorance or innocence here, which he is, thereby making it a story. You right-wing apologists can contort every which way you wish, but the truth will shine though.
You being a woman does not somehow qualify your apologetic stance.
Prostitution legalization, something which I support, is an entirely separate issue from Kraft engaging sex workers an an environment/condition which he knows, or should know having funded efforts, is highly likely to be a human trafficking enterprise.
This would be a non-story had he got caught with some high brow escort in a hotel room because the media and viewing public would, generally speaking, not take a morale high ground on the issue. He simply cannot plead ignorance or innocence here, which he is, thereby making it a story. You right-wing apologists can contort every which way you wish, but the truth will shine though.
I don't agree with Miu, as far as this whole incident being a victimless crime (the police must know more that the rest of us, given the charges they are throwing on him). But how is what she said being a "right wing apologist", in any shape or form?
I don't agree with Miu, as far as this whole incident being a victimless crime (the police must know more that the rest of us, given the charges they are throwing on him). But how is what she said being a "right wing apologist", in any shape or form?
Because she is choosing to diminish the suffering of woman at the hands of intelligent educated men as a non-issue. The desire for sex is a non-issue, but not the actions, and Kraft is not simply a victim of his sexual desires. It's an extremely oppressive ultra-conservative position to take and expresses little difference from female-backwards theocracies like Pakistan, Iran, SA, etc.
I know to conservative-minded folk this suggestion might seem a bit absurd, but to secular people interested in equality of rights, it's a bit egregious. Additionally, Kraft denies charges despite the police quite literally stating they have him on video, so he's already taken measures to erode his own morale standing. His actions, during and post are pathetic, as are his apologists.
Last edited by Shrewsburried; 02-26-2019 at 08:32 AM..
Hmm the "right-wingers" I know view sex outside marriage as a serious moral transgression, especially with unwilling participants (i.e. rape). Guess it depends who you're talking to.
I don't understand why a well connected billionaire would risk going to a place like that. If the guy wanted a prostitute, I'm sure he could have had one of his people discreetly set something up. But no, he chose to get driven by a chauffeur to a strip mall in Juniper, FL so he could go to a massage place called Orchids of Asia Day Spa. Unbelievable. And he's 77 years old...
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
1. He was very devoted to his wife while she was alive. At the age of 77, maybe he just wanted some sexual relief with no strings attached. What's wrong with that?
I was just pointing out that it wasn't the smartest move. He's a public figure. There are far less risky ways to get some sexual relief with no strings attached - especially for someone with his resources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
2. And how would he or any of the other clients know that those massage parlor workers were being forced to work against their wills??? There are many massage workers and prostitutes who sell sex willingly, because that is the the best paying work for their work skill set.
I don't know how he or anyone else (including the police) would know if it was human trafficking or just normal prostitution. As you said, the women are doing it by choice at plenty of these massage places. And, at the places where they're not doing it by choice, nobody is talking due to fear.
I don't know how he or anyone else (including the police) would know if it was human trafficking or just normal prostitution. As you said, the women are doing it by choice at plenty of these massage places. And, at the places where they're not doing it by choice, nobody is talking due to fear.
Maybe it isn't common knowledge in general, but I did study this stuff in college. There are definitely patterns that aren't hard to pick up on once you know they exist. The cops would have this down to a science. As for the johns, the reason they are there is because of what a deal it is. For the average john, it might be just not knowing that this stuff happens and just being happy with the low price. But for Kraft and similar men? I just don't see it. I do feel like he knows better.
Wait and see what else comes out I suppose though.
Hmm the "right-wingers" I know view sex outside marriage as a serious moral transgression, especially with unwilling participants (i.e. rape). Guess it depends who you're talking to.
The proper right-wingers I know view woman more or less as property and/or, at a minimum, lesser than. They provide service; i.e., sex, child birth, child rearing, etc. Narrating Kraft as some hapless sexual deviant is very in line with this thinking, as it diminishes the real victim here - the woman enslaved providing him 'pleasure'.
Add to it his failure to own his actions ... even when video taped ... and, well, forgive me if I don't by the 'ignorance narrative'.
The police were investigating the massage parlor, not Robert Kraft. And since they were investigating the business, it wasn't that OBVIOUS to the police that the parlor was using human trafficking victims against their will. Otherwise, they would have just shut down the parlor immediately and arrested the owners. Not every massage parlor offering "happy endings" is a business using sex trafficked workers or prostitutes plying their craft against their will.
Women sell their bodies all the time in exchange for a rich or powerful or celebrity boyfriend or husband. So f-king what?
And if the massage parlor was in a dumpy strip mall instead of being in a more upscale setting, so what? Going to a place like that is being more discrete and also not overpriced, like a fancier club with expensive liquor. Those men just wanted a massage and relief. They weren't looking for a girlfriend or future wife.
I may vote red, but I believe in climate change (that has to be reversed with less human beings on this planet so free birth control to everyone in developing countries), and fiscal responsibility (less entitlements and stop trying to force a STEM education on every single child), I support the border wall as part of a multi-faceted effort to stop illegal immigration and the creation of more DACAs), and I am pro-choice.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
