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I wonder where all those hikers on the Long Trail park. Never mind the fact that nearly every hamlet in Vermont has public transportation.
Hamlet? You mean the Prince of Denmark? Denmark has great public transportation. "Every hamlet" in Vermont doesn't have public transportation. What there is has very limited frequency. Rutland to White River on Route 4? The major east-west route in central Vermont. One bus per day. It doesn't line up with Amtrak Vermonter service at all.
There is almost no thought by residents of Springfield and the towns west of the river about working in Worcester. Almost everyone will look south to Hartford before even thinking of Worcester.
Maybe people in the Eastern burbs might, but outside of Wilbraham , Ludlow and Palmer the population drops quickly. So I don't think the demand for commuter rail east is there.
If anything I'd like to see more weekend and weeknight trains going east. If I was able to hit a Bruins game by train I'd be more inclined to go. And more frequent weekend trips home where I didn't have to drive would also be a plus.
But as far as Western Mass goes. I think the focus should be more North/ South with rail. The job centers are all along the CT river. That's where the people out here work and play. I'm in the smaller percentage of people who commute east for work. And let me tell you it's not an easy task. From exit 17 on the Pike to exit 6 last Friday took me 3.5 hours. And that was leaving work at 2 in the afternoon.
This and that, things obviously will change after the East West train Springfield/Worcester/Boston get built.
Springfield/Worcester could get win-win situation on this east west project. They should
Not everyone takes transit goes for work. Colleges have high ridership. The Vermonter was rerouted and lost Amherst but gained Northampton. Ridership is pretty good there. Some go for tourism, education, medical or maybe their car is in the shop etc.
You also have to remember not all business have more than one office. I've met plenty that travel for work. Another factor ahead is the long term possibility of another runway at Bradley and connecting shuttles to CT rail. That is a long ways off
BTW I don't have multiple accounts here the admin can easily check up addresses.
Hamlet? You mean the Prince of Denmark? Denmark has great public transportation. "Every hamlet" in Vermont doesn't have public transportation. What there is has very limited frequency. Rutland to White River on Route 4? The major east-west route in central Vermont. One bus per day. It doesn't line up with Amtrak Vermonter service at all.
The idea that vacationers, especially weekenders, are going to take a slow train to Vermont (via Springfield if they're coming from the Boston area) only to rely on extremely spotty and slow local public transportation when they get there is rooted in idealistic ignorance. Even IF local transit was a reliable option, who would do it? Traffic is essentially a non-issue in VT apart from a stretch of 100 from 89 to Stowe in the busy seasons and sometimes Burlington. If a family or a couple can afford a motel/hotel/vacation rental, they can almost assuredly afford to drive. A round trip "Saver" ticket from Springfield to Essex/Burlington is $76. Four a couple, you're looking at over $150. For a family of four, over $300. Oh, and it's over 5 hours on the train each way vs. 3.5 driving. And then that couple or family has to wait for a local bus to take them to where they're staying (assuming it's on a transit route) and rely on a combination of transit and cabs for any attraction or site they want to visit. Is that worth it for a weekend trip when you can drive (even pay for a rental car for less) faster for far less money and have a LOT more flexibility when you're there?
I love living in the city and not relying on my car. I wouldn't dream of doing it in Vermont. In fact, driving through some of that scenery is one of the best parts about being there.
The dream of replacing with M8 in CTrail is always going to be second to Metro North New Haven Line's demand. Here is complains on over crowding in New Haven line:
The last thing CT wants is asking Metro North riders to stand for 1 hour in rush hour to commute like those NYers in subways. Commuter rail is supposed to be premium or luxury version of subways, and monthly pass cost more. Therefore any new M8 cars in CT is going to Metro North line first to insure no-over-crowding before shore line east or Hartford Line gets any.
If older New Haven Line trains are going to be retired when new M8s come in, then the older rolling stock can be taken out of commission for a bit, refurbished and put on SLE. A major improvement to SLE isn’t necessarily the M8s themselves so much as it is running electric rolling stock on SLE whose tracks are already electrified since any electric rolling stock will generally have better acceleration than the diesel equivalent currently running on SLE, will have somewhat lower operating costs, and have the potential of running into Grand Central. If SLE does get electric rolling stock, then its diesel stock can, similarly to the prospect of retired New Haven rolling stock, be taken out of commission to be refurbished for the Hartford Line which is not electrified. After all, using refurbished SLE trains was the original plan, but SLE didn’t get its electric rolling stock before the opening so the Hartford Line instead uses refurbished old MBTA commuter rail stock. How does that fit into the Valley Flyer? The Valley Flyer services are New Haven-Springfield Shuttle services that have been extended three stops. When not used as Valley Flyer service, they need to make the timetable for the New Haven-Springfield Shuttle schedule that complements and has cross-honored fare with the Hartford Line. If the Hartford Line service with CDOT trains can cover more of the New Haven-Springfield Shuttle service with its own fleet of refurbished former SLE rolling stock, then this can potentially free up the New Haven-Springfield Shuttle Amtrak rolling stock to all become Valley Flyers or something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
The idea that vacationers, especially weekenders, are going to take a slow train to Vermont (via Springfield if they're coming from the Boston area) only to rely on extremely spotty and slow local public transportation when they get there is rooted in idealistic ignorance. Even IF local transit was a reliable option, who would do it? Traffic is essentially a non-issue in VT apart from a stretch of 100 from 89 to Stowe in the busy seasons and sometimes Burlington. If a family or a couple can afford a motel/hotel/vacation rental, they can almost assuredly afford to drive. A round trip "Saver" ticket from Springfield to Essex/Burlington is $76. Four a couple, you're looking at over $150. For a family of four, over $300. Oh, and it's over 5 hours on the train each way vs. 3.5 driving. And then that couple or family has to wait for a local bus to take them to where they're staying (assuming it's on a transit route) and rely on a combination of transit and cabs for any attraction or site they want to visit. Is that worth it for a weekend trip when you can drive (even pay for a rental car for less) faster for far less money and have a LOT more flexibility when you're there?
I love living in the city and not relying on my car. I wouldn't dream of doing it in Vermont. In fact, driving through some of that scenery is one of the best parts about being there.
One thing that’s horrendous is driving in and out of the city center to get to these things. I do think that there should be a few car rental or carshare services co-located with more tourist-y Amtrak stations.
One thing that’s horrendous is driving in and out of the city center to get to these things. I do think that there should be a few car rental or carshare services co-located with more tourist-y Amtrak stations.
This is true. My girlfriend's parents live near Waterbury (which has both a train and bus stop) and it takes is around 3 hours even to get there from our place in Somerville with no traffic. It's 4-4.5 on the Friday of a holiday weekend with traffic not freeing up until we hit 89 (the highway "improvements" to 93 in New Hampshire have been going on for a decade or so and create bottlenecks that choke traffic horrifically at certain points, but I digress). But really, it's still more expensive, and the current service isn't faster than the drive with even the worst traffic. If there was high speed service between Boston and Montreal with a few VT stops, I could see rental car centers within train stations being an alternative to people who don't want to deal with traffic. But not really with the current service.
The idea that vacationers, especially weekenders, are going to take a slow train to Vermont (via Springfield if they're coming from the Boston area) only to rely on extremely spotty and slow local public transportation when they get there is rooted in idealistic ignorance. Even IF local transit was a reliable option, who would do it? Traffic is essentially a non-issue in VT apart from a stretch of 100 from 89 to Stowe in the busy seasons and sometimes Burlington. If a family or a couple can afford a motel/hotel/vacation rental, they can almost assuredly afford to drive. A round trip "Saver" ticket from Springfield to Essex/Burlington is $76. Four a couple, you're looking at over $150. For a family of four, over $300. Oh, and it's over 5 hours on the train each way vs. 3.5 driving. And then that couple or family has to wait for a local bus to take them to where they're staying (assuming it's on a transit route) and rely on a combination of transit and cabs for any attraction or site they want to visit. Is that worth it for a weekend trip when you can drive (even pay for a rental car for less) faster for far less money and have a LOT more flexibility when you're there?
I love living in the city and not relying on my car. I wouldn't dream of doing it in Vermont. In fact, driving through some of that scenery is one of the best parts about being there.
I used to use public transportation occasionally to relocate my two cars between Killington and West Portugal. SRTA from my house to the bus station. Dattco from New Beige to South Station. Dartmouth Coach to Hanover. Vermont Transit (Greyhound has the contract, I think) Bus from there to Killington. Local bus up the Access Road. It’s possible but you’re stranded in Hanover if something goes wrong and you miss the one bus to Rutland. I’d often grab a ride from a Killington friend who was shopping in tax-free New Hampshire or bum a ride to/from the New Bedford bus station.
I’ve had a car at the dealership in Rutland for warranty work where I rode the bus when nobody was going down the hill where I could grab a ride. That’s one of the few high frequency bus routes in Vermont and subsidized by the resort. There is a seasonal bus to Killington waiting in Rutland when the Ethan Allen Amtrak train from NY Penn arrives. The largest resort in Vermont and that’s it for public transportation. Other than Burlington, it’s very limited elsewhere in the state.
Hamlet? You mean the Prince of Denmark? Denmark has great public transportation.
ham·let /ˈhamlət/ nouna small settlement, generally one smaller than a village.
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"Every hamlet" in Vermont doesn't have public transportation. What there is has very limited frequency. Rutland to White River on Route 4? The major east-west route in central Vermont. One bus per day. It doesn't line up with Amtrak Vermonter service at all.
I wasn't referring to private intercity buses like Greyhound or Vermont Translines. And yes, I was exaggerating - only 122 cities and towns out of 255 in Vermont have public transit service. Killington to White River Junction is a notable gap, but there are three buses a day, fare free, between Bellows Falls and Rutland operated by Brattleboro's The Current and Rutland's The Bus. They also don't line up with the Vermonter schedule, which gets in to Vermont too late - more an argument for earlier and more train service than against public transit. Besides, if you're going to Rutland, I would assume the Ethan Allen would be more convenient than the Vermonter (which also gets in late, although there is a timed bus connection to Killington).
There is a seasonal bus to Killington waiting in Rutland when the Ethan Allen Amtrak train from NY Penn arrives. The largest resort in Vermont and that’s it for public transportation.
No, The Bus runs hourly service between Rutland and Killington.
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Other than Burlington, it’s very limited elsewhere in the state.
Not really. It's not the MBTA, but it certainly makes more than "5 blocks in Brattleboro" accessible without a car.
ham·let /ˈhamlət/ nouna small settlement, generally one smaller than a village.
I wasn't referring to private intercity buses like Greyhound or Vermont Translines. And yes, I was exaggerating - only 122 cities and towns out of 255 in Vermont have public transit service. Killington to White River Junction is a notable gap, but there are three buses a day, fare free, between Bellows Falls and Rutland operated by Brattleboro's The Current and Rutland's The Bus. They also don't line up with the Vermonter schedule, which gets in to Vermont too late - more an argument for earlier and more train service than against public transit. Besides, if you're going to Rutland, I would assume the Ethan Allen would be more convenient than the Vermonter (which also gets in late, although there is a timed bus connection to Killington).
We were talking about train/bus integration.
I wrote that The Bus at the Rutland Amtrak station bringing passengers from the Ethan Allen to Killington is seasonal. Maybe I didn't give enough detail. You get off the train from Manhattan at about 11:15pm on Friday night and walk a hundred feet to a waiting bus. If the train is running late, the bus is still sitting there. Amtrak Ethan Allen will also delay departure on Sundays if the bus down from the mountain is running a bit late. Killington (the resort) subsidizes that dedicated bus run but only during ski season.
With the Vermonter, you're SOL. Nothing lines up. There's no public transportation at all when you get off the train.
That's independent of the hourly employee shuttle up the hill from Rutland. That's also subsidized by both the resort and the access road businesses. It has stops at all the resort-leased employee lodging in what used to be 1950s motels in Mendon. There's also the "drunk bus" that runs up and down the Killington access road. That's also subsidized by town businesses and the resort. None of that would operate without private sector money propping it up.
Okemo also subsidizes bus service to Bellows Falls and Rutland on 103. It's how employees making low ski area wages get to work.
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