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Old 01-31-2020, 06:08 PM
 
24,510 posts, read 17,988,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
The point is there are so many casinos now, thy are just feeding of each others customers. The pie has not gotten any bigger. Just more people want a piece of the pie.
I made that point several times in this thread. It’s pretty much a zero sum game. Springfield will steal a bit of Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun business. Boston will make a dent. Springfield has zero shot at destination business because Springfield. It’s a 30% poverty rate city.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:30 PM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,740,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
I made that point several times in this thread. It’s pretty much a zero sum game. Springfield will steal a bit of Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun business. Boston will make a dent. Springfield has zero shot at destination business because Springfield. It’s a 30% poverty rate city.
Right... And Boston has a 20% poverty rate

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...etts/RHI125218
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:38 PM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,740,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
I made that point several times in this thread. It’s pretty much a zero sum game. Springfield will steal a bit of Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun business. Boston will make a dent. Springfield has zero shot at destination business because Springfield. It’s a 30% poverty rate city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dm84 View Post
Correct. The difference is people actually go there to go to the casinos. In Springfield the casinos are just another reason to avoid the area.

Encore can survive off of tourists and the convention business. People don't come to Boston to go to Encore but they may go while they're in Boston for other reasons. People will not go to Springfield for any reason other than to visit some relatives or go to the Big E. It's a failed city with absolutely nothing to offer other than a casino which can be found in less crappy places already.
So why are businesses coming in and academia?

Look not all businesses can afford Boston. The foundation problem in CTand the decline of Berkshire and now Franklin County is consolidating western mass if not new England to Springfield.

There's concerts, conventions, academia, medical care(third largest heath care system in the state), museums, parks etc.

Mgm has been good to the city as it attracts about 19,000 people a day. The hotels are fully booked on weekends. Add in all the medical staff and lawyers and it adds up.

Hartford is in financial receivership and Aetna admitted layoffs are coming (most likely in thousands) in three years. There us potential but they have to clean house. There is no real east Windsor casino but between litigation and demolition they wasted 100 million on an empty lot
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:51 PM
 
3,176 posts, read 3,666,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Right... And Boston has a 20% poverty rate

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...etts/RHI125218
The difference is Boston also has a high percentage of super wealthy people. Springfield has people living in poverty, and people who are close to poverty.

Median household income in Boston = $53k
Median household income in Springfield = $34k

Per Capita income in Springfield = $34k
Per Capita income in Boston = $18k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._capita_income

Face it - Springfield is literally the second poorest municipality in Massachusetts by per capita income. It's a dump. Only Lawrence is poorer.
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Old 02-01-2020, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,198 posts, read 14,559,798 times
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A Casino in Boston will work what with tourists, people in town on business, disposable income, etc. all of which Springfield has little of.
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:09 AM
 
24,510 posts, read 17,988,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dm84 View Post
The difference is Boston also has a high percentage of super wealthy people. Springfield has people living in poverty, and people who are close to poverty.

Median household income in Boston = $53k
Median household income in Springfield = $34k

Per Capita income in Springfield = $34k
Per Capita income in Boston = $18k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._capita_income

Face it - Springfield is literally the second poorest municipality in Massachusetts by per capita income. It's a dump. Only Lawrence is poorer.
It’s not just Springfield. The whole metro area has a weak economy. Inside 495 is one of the most economically vital areas on the planet. Defending a total dump like Springfield by citing Boston poverty rate is ludicrous. Metro Boston median household income is getting close to $100k. It will probably be over $90k with this year’s census.

Federal law prevents Springfield slot machines from taking EBT cards. I don’t know how the locals gamble.
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
5,037 posts, read 6,871,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
So why are businesses coming in and academia?

Look not all businesses can afford Boston. The foundation problem in CTand the decline of Berkshire and now Franklin County is consolidating western mass if not new England to Springfield.

There's concerts, conventions, academia, medical care(third largest heath care system in the state), museums, parks etc.

Mgm has been good to the city as it attracts about 19,000 people a day. The hotels are fully booked on weekends. Add in all the medical staff and lawyers and it adds up.

Hartford is in financial receivership and Aetna admitted layoffs are coming (most likely in thousands) in three years. There us potential but they have to clean house. There is no real east Windsor casino but between litigation and demolition they wasted 100 million on an empty lot
I get that you feel inclined to defend Springfield, but the casino underperforming is a widely-reported fact. How do you explain it? I think Springfield being a minor metro, coupled with casino saturation, is pretty compelling. Foxwoods and Mohegan are in even smaller metros but have a significant first-movers advantage, allowing them to tap both the NYC and Boston markets. Springfield is stuck pulling from its own metro, which is tiny.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP14460
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP44140

The Springfield MSA GDP is less than 10% of the Boston MSA GDP.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:08 PM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,740,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom View Post
I get that you feel inclined to defend Springfield, but the casino underperforming is a widely-reported fact. How do you explain it? I think Springfield being a minor metro, coupled with casino saturation, is pretty compelling. Foxwoods and Mohegan are in even smaller metros but have a significant first-movers advantage, allowing them to tap both the NYC and Boston markets. Springfield is stuck pulling from its own metro, which is tiny.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP14460
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP44140

The Springfield MSA GDP is less than 10% of the Boston MSA GDP.
Right but in terms of education Springfield public schools isn't that much different from Boston.

Academia, finance, medical and government dominate employment in both cities.

First movers? All casinos in the region make money. This isn't NJ where they asked for bailouts. Mass didn't go crazy with casinos, only a handful are in the state. CT screwed itself with that agreement in the 90s. Like it or not but highways and transit dictate growth. Springfield is at the crossroads. Meanwhile the local list of public housing is gone. In April Wayfinder opens and that's next to union Station. They help people find housing and frankly they are going to help the poor leave. Pvta, amtrak, ctrail, Peter pan, greyhound etc will all take them somewhere else. Places change Judy look at Providence and Lowell. The train to boston pretty much assured if you like it or not. Cheaper housing and less traffic become attractant and many jobs allow you to work online.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:34 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
Reputation: 40634
Seriously, you really think high tech workers who have enough skills and clout to be able to work remotely are going to choose Springfield????? Come the freak on.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,198 posts, read 14,559,798 times
Reputation: 22004
Reaching back in my memory. When Casinos first wanted to open in CT, the governor and state legislators were against them but the US Gov forced the issue under indian rights. I believe CT countered OK but under the law there can only be table games, not slot machines. The Casino backers did not want that so they struck a deal to pay very, very high taxes on slot machine profits to the state. The state accepted the deal.

Those of you familiar with Las Vegas may remember the "loose slots" and "we pay more out" wars the casinos waged on each other concerning slot machine returns. Maybe that is what is needed in New England especially in Springfield.
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