Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-25-2020, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Dripping Springs, Texas
162 posts, read 102,052 times
Reputation: 416

Advertisements

How corrupt is Massachusetts compared to other places?

I'm not intending to put Mass down. I live here because I want to and, after living in other cities, states, and first/third world countries, I prefer here over anyplace else I've been. A few things are bothering me though.

The state police scandals. I've never been arrested or ticketed by the state police, so I have no dog in that fight, but it has definitely affected my morale and faith in society to know the corruption was so widespread over so many years, supervisors, Governor's. It went on for so many years unnoticed?

The alleged bribe taking involving a few politicians and the awarding pot shop licenses, the infiltration of big money players in the legal marijuana industry, and the lockout of small, local craft growers, women, and minorities from the lucrative industry.

It bothers me that the potential scandal involving the governor's adult son allegedly, perhaps, fondling the breasts of a young woman in the next seat on a flight from Washington DC was so rapidly hushed up by the media and was apparently being investigated by the state police who were also being investigated for their own corruption.

Closer to my home, the sex scandal involving former Senate President Rosenberg and his boy toy, leading to his resignation.

It seems the politicians and paper pushers, not all of them but many, set their own compensation generously and only benefit the people if it primarily benefits the big money players. Every week is a new tax or fee and increasing numbers are struggling to find decent housing or even homeless. I'm glad I'm not a millennial looking to get established.

Is it worse or better other places, am I too pessimistic about Massachusetts? It doesn't seem so special here anymore compared say to the rural South or many undeveloped countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-26-2020, 02:03 AM
 
2,710 posts, read 1,731,729 times
Reputation: 1319
There's corruption everywhere. I can hardly watch an NBA game anymore because the refs control the score and decide who wins 90% of the time.

My brother in law is a police officer and he admits that they all abuse time on the clock. He personally admits to napping in his cruiser while on duty, going to parties and social gatherings while on duty, and calling out sick when he doesn't feel like working. If he or his relatives gets pulled over for speeding, he can call his buddy and get the ticket canceled. He says they all do this. I consider that corrupt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 04:28 AM
 
2,463 posts, read 2,788,097 times
Reputation: 3627
Rhode Island is far more corrupt. You can’t get a state job unless you know somebody. The state workers unions are totally in bed with politicians, and are often the public officials themselves that make the laws that benefit them. State workers get whatever they want, and after they retire, they move to FL because RI is “too expensive”. Taxes are higher in RI than in MA. RI is a sanctuary state that literally welcomes undocumented people to come here that the tax payer has to pay for. All maritime goods are tax free, to help the rich, that’s why John Kerry docked his boat here. Yet you need a license for everything, even to fish. RI schools are the worst in the entire country, partly because so many students don’t speak English, and teachers aren’t held accountable, despite being among the highest paid in the nation.

Politicians have the intrinsic ability to focus on petty things, minutia that doesn’t really matter, to take the focus off the glaring elephants in the room, and the media falls for it every time.

The entire city of Providence has 20mph speed limits posted near all schools, where people are used to driving a safe 35mph, so many people, including people that haven’t had a ticket in 40-50 years are getting tickets. The mayor thinks it’s a great way to increase revenue. It’s done in the name of “safety” for the kids. The mayor of Providence has wasted millions of dollars destroying Roger Williams Park, and putting bike paths everywhere, including in dangerous areas, yet is so concerned with safety. Providence is a financially distressed city, yet so much tax dollars are wasted.

Last edited by 9162; 02-26-2020 at 04:47 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 04:35 AM
 
2,463 posts, read 2,788,097 times
Reputation: 3627
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix5k View Post
There's corruption everywhere. I can hardly watch an NBA game anymore because the refs control the score and decide who wins 90% of the time.

My brother in law is a police officer and he admits that they all abuse time on the clock. He personally admits to napping in his cruiser while on duty, going to parties and social gatherings while on duty, and calling out sick when he doesn't feel like working. If he or his relatives gets pulled over for speeding, he can call his buddy and get the ticket canceled. He says they all do this. I consider that corrupt.
This is identical to RI. Providence does not have overnight parking, however a permit may be obtained with an annual fee to those that really need to park in the street; permits are available in certain areas. However, it all depends on who you know. There are certain vehicles parked on my street overnight, every night even when it snows, and they get away with it. It’s all a matter of who you know, and having a lot of vowels in your last name definitely doesn’t hurt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 05:08 AM
 
3,211 posts, read 2,119,515 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBThescot View Post

The state police scandals. I've never been arrested or ticketed by the state police, so I have no dog in that fight
But yes you do indeed if you pay taxes. All that money is coming right out of your pocket, straight to the second boat slip in Harwich for officer Flattop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,543 posts, read 14,020,436 times
Reputation: 7929
As others are saying, every state has some level of corruption or nepotism or whatever you want to call it. I find Massachusetts to be fairly average when it comes to these things. I've had brief stints living in South Florida and also Rhode Island and have found the corruption/nepotism far more prevalent in those places.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 05:27 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,951,955 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix5k View Post
There's corruption everywhere. .


True, Mass is just slightly better at bringing it to light.


Damn, live in some rural areas, its more overt there and never gets exposed. It's scary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,246 posts, read 14,733,373 times
Reputation: 22189
I have lived in several states and generally in bigger cities. MA is not much different as far as corruption goes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Providence, RI
12,847 posts, read 22,014,769 times
Reputation: 14134
For a few years under both the Baker and Patrick Administrations I had a pretty good window into the inner workings of state government.

I don't have similar perspective in any other states so I can't weigh in on that. But regarding actual corruption, I don't think it's particularly rampant here. There are instances of it and they're often highly publicized and noteworthy - the State Police scandal is epic - far worse than typical cops milking the clock. Union bullying is another example. On an individual level you have examples like Mark D'Angelo spending 3 hours a day at a bar during the work week or Matthew Sisk misusing vehicles. All of that is unacceptable, but more often than not it catches up to people (and usually in very public ways). There are always people who will act as whistle blowers and there are media outlets and a public all too eager for blood. Even the ones that don't make it public (I'm thinking of a case where seasonal park workers stole thousands in parking fees one summer) are dealt with internally pretty swiftly. Even some of the quid pro quo for any type of permits, licenses, or approvals is generally blown up quickly.

The stuff that's more outrageous (to me, anyway) is the costly mismanagement and legal manipulation of policies. This is where the outrage should be directed. The T (rightfully) got burned for this with their overtime pay practices. Overtime mismanagement is an issue across the board in any agency that has overtime and it's technically legal (at least most of the time). You have people making careers out of seasonal union positions (which have recall policies) by working for the state from April-October, collecting unemployment through the winter and working under the table during the winter before getting placed back into the seasonal role when it opens up again. You have people "retiring" and then coming back as short term help - they collect their pension in addition to getting paid their most recent salary plus 50% extra. It's a baked in plan for many employees and it's just accepted as OK. The problem with all of this is that while it's incredibly wasteful, it's not illegal for the most part (apart from under the table work), and making a meaningful change in any reasonable amount of time would be borderline impossible given the hurdles in place. I'm not saying we don't need to worry about the actual corruption - it's inexcusable - but the legal stuff going on is a bigger waste.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2020, 11:03 AM
 
7,924 posts, read 7,811,466 times
Reputation: 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
For a few years under both the Baker and Patrick Administrations I had a pretty good window into the inner workings of state government.

I don't have similar perspective in any other states so I can't weigh in on that. But regarding actual corruption, I don't think it's particularly rampant here. There are instances of it and they're often highly publicized and noteworthy - the State Police scandal is epic - far worse than typical cops milking the clock. Union bullying is another example. On an individual level you have examples like Mark D'Angelo spending 3 hours a day at a bar during the work week or Matthew Sisk misusing vehicles. All of that is unacceptable, but more often than not it catches up to people (and usually in very public ways). There are always people who will act as whistle blowers and there are media outlets and a public all too eager for blood. Even the ones that don't make it public (I'm thinking of a case where seasonal park workers stole thousands in parking fees one summer) are dealt with internally pretty swiftly. Even some of the quid pro quo for any type of permits, licenses, or approvals is generally blown up quickly.

The stuff that's more outrageous (to me, anyway) is the costly mismanagement and legal manipulation of policies. This is where the outrage should be directed. The T (rightfully) got burned for this with their overtime pay practices. Overtime mismanagement is an issue across the board in any agency that has overtime and it's technically legal (at least most of the time). You have people making careers out of seasonal union positions (which have recall policies) by working for the state from April-October, collecting unemployment through the winter and working under the table during the winter before getting placed back into the seasonal role when it opens up again. You have people "retiring" and then coming back as short term help - they collect their pension in addition to getting paid their most recent salary plus 50% extra. It's a baked in plan for many employees and it's just accepted as OK. The problem with all of this is that while it's incredibly wasteful, it's not illegal for the most part (apart from under the table work), and making a meaningful change in any reasonable amount of time would be borderline impossible given the hurdles in place. I'm not saying we don't need to worry about the actual corruption - it's inexcusable - but the legal stuff going on is a bigger waste.
Strongly agree

To comment on professional sports there’s more than enough evidence to suggest it is entertainment only, not really representing the best of professional athletes. For example, any sport that is a race say a horse or NASCAR the camera focuses on the leader but not the others slowing down. Baseball is faked easily on the basis of when there is a bad call often times the coach argues with the umpire. In the history of the MLB has any coach ever won against the umpire? If a coach knows this why bother doing it to begin with? NBA changed the rules of the game with time. Basketball in the 70’s was rough. A foul wasn’t a foul back then until someone was nearly punched. Now a poke to the chest means a fowl. NFL well it isn’t that hard to tell what plays are. The major networks pay billions for broadcast rights and they need some drama for ratings. No ratings means no advertisers. Every major network has a sports division with paid staff.
Getting back to topic it also depends on coverage on local media. Without local media things do not get questioned. Sure, there is facebook but that doesn’t appear in their mailbox or front door every morning. Add in no local radio and tv and frankly a town can do what they want. I've been though a number of towns in new England and there's a huge difference once you see there's no media. Sure some reporters can be asses and there can be a bias but there's many people that don't ask the right questions let alone any questions.

There’s an active inspector general in Massachusetts which does investigate practices within government. There are contractors that do get removed for bad behavior and banned from receiving jobs that have state funding. Hi Way Safety comes to mind. Debarment can happen due to accidents with DIA, MassDOT for horizontal construction, DCAMM for vertical and goods and services from the IG. Mass also has the Prudent Man rule still on the books.

Generally speaking when things really get bad in Mass there's reforms and people are kicked out. When UMass Boston was made everyone had their hands in it. It's still a pretty bad building and most likely should never had been built (or at least there). The IG office was created due to that. Governor Patrick nearly regionalized housing authorities after what happened in Chelsea. He was making 350K, twice what people thought. The compromise meant they had to put in a centralized state waiting list, a executive director compensation formula (pretty simple) and training programs with certifications.

The fact of the matter is many parts of public action occur with committees and not individuals. On the whole pot legalization it isn’t as lucrative as you think as with more licenses that means less revenue and eventually it gets to be like alcohol. There’s restrictions on advertising to the point where what makes one shop any different from another will be blurred and it becomes a commodity (like alcohol). Unless they specifically make their own and it is more of a craft then that’s where the market will go. If I buy one bottle of wine from one store and get the same from another what am I getting for the price difference?
Cash transactions can easily be eliminated. I just renewed my registration and excise taxes both online. Even if they don’t take a debit/credit card ACH payments shouldn’t cost anything. There’s plenty of ways of lowering cash as a medium. Years ago there was a minor break in where cash was stolen from a onsite laundry card machine. Ok fine no more cash, credit/debit card, google/apple pay or EBT. As more goes online the more controlled it becomes. Much of what was coin operated either has been replaced with personal ownership (payphones with cell phones) or takes debit/credit payments. Criminality usually uses cash and a way to get in and out fast. Multiple layers of security, keys, cameras all add up.

There can be a huge difference between something being illegal vs unethical. I’ve seen plenty that might not be ethical. I know of a teachers union that found a union stipulation that said if any union is told to come in then they all get paid. Well one of those unions was the DPW. Of course, they have to go out to plow the roads. Basically, the teachers union wanted to get paid for snow days even if the days were called off. It’s supposed to be added to the end, so you don’t lose any time. What they wanted was unethical, but it was perfectly legal.

For companies it depends as to their checks and balances as well. When I worked in retail there was a new manager that came in. From what I read his parents were high up on a regional chain we bought out in California. Supposedly that deal meant this guy had to always have a job with us. Is there anything illegal about that? No. Unethical? Probably. One place I was at long ago had a guy running a side hobby for a uniform company. When it came time to order new uniforms he said they could only be used with HIS forms (2-3% commission). Illegal no, unethical yes.

Anyone hear deal with Adelphia back in the day? The Regis family used it as a piggybank. I felt sorry for employees as tens, potentially hundreds of millions was siphoned off leading to a lack of upgrades and materials, staffing etc. Comcast bought them due to this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:30 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top