Coronavirus in Massachusetts (insurance, dangerous, versus)

[msRB311]

I've heard Harvard expects to be 'fully operational' by the fall. Not entirely sure what this means though. Having everyone - students and staff - back on campus by fall seems pretty ambitious.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It's evolution in action.

Originally Posted by sawyer2

Yup, I will have zero sympathy.

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Opinion: If you forfeit your opportunity to be vaccinated, you assume the risk. I don't think society has an obligation to maintain the voluntary opt-outs as a 'protected class'.

Essentially what I figured the sentiment would be. I definitely put myself in this camp too and I hope some of them start to come around quickly.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Harvard sounds like they are reopening in the fall. They'll lose students if they can't get the vaccine and are overseas
https://www.thedp.com/article/2021/0...-fall-semester
they can't tell students to wait 2-3 years for the vaccine in order for them to complete their degree.

Given that Northeastern said they had record applicants it's not likely to be an issue. Schools pretty much draw from India and China and those two countries I'd expect vaccination to be fairly easy for their citizens to get.

Edit: One thing that might be annoying to the schools is that they likely won't be able to force students to get any of the vaccines since the FDA is unlikely to fully approve of a vaccine for some time. The testing centers will have to stick around. They could make it easy for any student that doesn't have a shot (overseas or otherwise) to get the J&J vaccine, I'm sure.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Given that Northeastern said they had record applicants it's not likely to be an issue. Schools pretty much draw from India and China and those two countries I'd expect vaccination to be fairly easy for their citizens to get.

No...not at all

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/
At the current rate it will take China 9.4 years to cover 75% of the population for herd immunity. The USA is doing a million or so shots a day. China is doing 600,000 and has a much higher population. India will take 4.3 years.

Can it be possible for those vaccinated to come to the USA? Yes but that might be debated as to how those countries have distribution as well. Who is going to tell people in China that young students need it to take classes in the USA over elderly grandparents, especially if the classes are online?

India has thick bureaucracy to say the least. It isn't a matter of technology for them.
https://theprint.in/opinion/its-2021...ogress/587750/
I've heard it can take up to ten years to get divorced.
"A foreign diplomat recently told me he was hassled to see how difficult it was to sell his car in Delhi. Another foreign diplomat told me about the paperwork harassment at the airport due to Covid: “I had to fill forms affirming that I had filled forms, which affirmed that I had an RT-PCR a negative test.”

"The Indian bureaucracy fought an infectious disease with red tape, as The Economist memorably put it. The confusion in Delhi NCR traffic movement was a good example, with one state opening its borders and the other closing, showing total lack of coordination. Then there have been these night curfews, forcing people to do their socialising in the crowded day time, further increasing the possibility of the spread of the virus. In many cities, the traffic police was fining people for not wearing a mask even while driving solo in a closed car. It took the intervention of the courts to stop this bizarre harassment of citizens to relieve them of their money."

As for China...yes their numbers have gone down but having been there the numbers are so vast and unless you start really building more infrastructure out west people will go to eastern cities and possibly overload them. China plans for 40% to be vaccinated by June. So five months to get to 40% means even if that fast there's not enough immunity until mid fall. Even the china version of the CDC says normality won't be around until summer next year.
https://time.com/5943700/china-vaccinate-population/

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Given that Northeastern said they had record applicants it's not likely to be an issue. Schools pretty much draw from India and China and those two countries I'd expect vaccination to be fairly easy for their citizens to get.

Edit: One thing that might be annoying to the schools is that they likely won't be able to force students to get any of the vaccines since the FDA is unlikely to fully approve of a vaccine for some time. The testing centers will have to stick around. They could make it easy for any student that doesn't have a shot (overseas or otherwise) to get the J&J vaccine, I'm sure.

India? Are you kidding me? They do have a plan to get 300M citizens vaccinated by the end of summer, but you realize they have 1.3B people?

[id77]

Originally Posted by mdovell

No...not at all

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/
At the current rate it will take China 9.4 years to cover 75% of the population for herd immunity. The USA is doing a million or so shots a day. China is doing 600,000 and has a much higher population. India will take 4.3 years.

Can it be possible for those vaccinated to come to the USA? Yes but that might be debated as to how those countries have distribution as well. Who is going to tell people in China that young students need it to take classes in the USA over elderly grandparents, especially if the classes are online?

India has thick bureaucracy to say the least. It isn't a matter of technology for them.
https://theprint.in/opinion/its-2021...ogress/587750/
I've heard it can take up to ten years to get divorced.
"A foreign diplomat recently told me he was hassled to see how difficult it was to sell his car in Delhi. Another foreign diplomat told me about the paperwork harassment at the airport due to Covid: “I had to fill forms affirming that I had filled forms, which affirmed that I had an RT-PCR a negative test.”

"The Indian bureaucracy fought an infectious disease with red tape, as The Economist memorably put it. The confusion in Delhi NCR traffic movement was a good example, with one state opening its borders and the other closing, showing total lack of coordination. Then there have been these night curfews, forcing people to do their socialising in the crowded day time, further increasing the possibility of the spread of the virus. In many cities, the traffic police was fining people for not wearing a mask even while driving solo in a closed car. It took the intervention of the courts to stop this bizarre harassment of citizens to relieve them of their money."

As for China...yes their numbers have gone down but having been there the numbers are so vast and unless you start really building more infrastructure out west people will go to eastern cities and possibly overload them. China plans for 40% to be vaccinated by June. So five months to get to 40% means even if that fast there's not enough immunity until mid fall. Even the china version of the CDC says normality won't be around until summer next year.
https://time.com/5943700/china-vaccinate-population/

These issues will be less complicated than it sounds for China and India, because money talks.

Yes, there are massive chunks of the Chinese and Indian population that won't get vaccinated soon, but those are the same chunks of the population that are usually last in line for most things. These are also overwhelmingly the same chunks who don't have the means to send their kids off to attend college in one of the more expensive parts of one of the more expensive nations of the world.

Kids of rich parents will jump the queue for vaccines, and it's not going to be a big deal when they do. I wouldn't worry much about what people there will think when they find out; the CCP and BJP certainly won't be.

[mdovell]

I was in China for three weeks back in '08. Words and photos cannot do it justice to get an actual understanding of the population density. A small town in China is a million people. Imagine precovid Times Square NYC but everywhere. The traffic alone. 128 traffic isn't as bad as NYC. NYC isn't anything vs Beijing and Shanghai. On a side note in the USA people went west as states were added. In china it's the other way. The vast majority of development is long coasts and rivers. people come from the west to the east all the time, it's like Okies from the Grapes of Wrath. Well Beijing doesn't really want more people in cities out east. It means more resources, more traffic, more stress etc.

USA production cannot supply the whole planet and if that was the case it has to go to them and not vice versa. There's no way we're going to have tens if not hundreds of millions of people coming in to get vaccinated. That's why there's other vaccines in russia and china. There's absolutely no possible way that we will see the same numbers of international students in the boston metro area any time soon.

Certainly money talks and Guanxi comes to mind. china's social credit score might be a huge factor in determining who is and isn't allowed to get the vaccine let alone travel. There isn't exactly that much of a rule of law there but there can be pressure on the CCP.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by id77

Kids of rich parents will jump the queue for vaccines, and it's not going to be a big deal when they do. I wouldn't worry much about what people there will think when they find out; the CCP and BJP certainly won't be.

Pretty much, plus on the chance they haven't gotten it yet, it'll be easy for them to get it here.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by mdovell

USA production cannot supply the whole planet and if that was the case it has to go to them and not vice versa. There's no way we're going to have tens if not hundreds of millions of people coming in to get vaccinated

We're not talking about tens or hundreds of millions when we are talking about students.

[msRB311]

We're not going back to the office:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...2323525/%3Famp