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Old 07-18-2021, 12:11 AM
 
2,811 posts, read 5,039,565 times
Reputation: 2269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
I see things quite differently - you're right that vaccine opposition and outright paranoia are not new. However, it's never been driven by so many leading political voices and it's never been so widely embraced - that's not a coincidence. It's not an exaggeration to call the accusations routinely made by America's leading news commenter completely unsubstantiated and absolutely crazy, and he's one of a large chorus of people pushing the message that vaccines aren't needed, they're dangerous, and it's all an evil conspiracy.

I don't think that you need to just "trust the system" to accept vaccines. You can look at their long record of accomplishments for the human race, and you can trust the science and indeed the results on this one. The data is all there. Most people may not understand how vaccines really work, and it's not that simple in fact, but the results are publicly available and they should be pretty clear to anyone.
Do you know what ingredients are in the vaccine? If I gave you food and said "trust me" and I have zero liability would you take it? At least with food it goes through your system, while vaccines stay with you forever, but no big deal.

Again, nobody can answer why if an adult decides not to get vaccinated why its a big deal. If you trust the vaccine then why are you worried. Oh, its because this so called vaccine doesn't stop you from being infected or from transmitting the virus, it supposedly only keeps you from having more severe symptoms. Have to like that argument, what does it do, supposedly it keeps you from having 3 sniffles instead of 4.

Its funny, cause all those conspiracy theorist people who said it came from a lab and were censored are the same saying stay away from the vaccine, but what do they know. Keep following Fascist Fauci, you should be fine...he has never lied before. How someone can still trust the same organizations that have continued to lie to them and be wrong is beyond me...definition of insanity.
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Old 07-18-2021, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
4,444 posts, read 5,669,630 times
Reputation: 5438
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
Do you know what ingredients are in the vaccine? If I gave you food and said "trust me" and I have zero liability would you take it? At least with food it goes through your system, while vaccines stay with you forever, but no big deal.
I mean, this is exactly how food works. The only major difference is that with food there is token USDA inspection while for vaccines there is rigorous scientific study.

Vaccines go through your system in the same way food does. The only thing that is generally left behind are antibodies that will help prevent infection. You can get those from the virus as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
Again, nobody can answer why if an adult decides not to get vaccinated why its a big deal. If you trust the vaccine then why are you worried. Oh, its because this so called vaccine doesn't stop you from being infected or from transmitting the virus, it supposedly only keeps you from having more severe symptoms. Have to like that argument, what does it do, supposedly it keeps you from having 3 sniffles instead of 4.
The vaccine prevents infection. Not perfectly, but with high efficacy. It prevents severe disease and death with even greater efficacy. The studies are unambiguous. They gave placebo to one group and vaccine to the second. The people who got COVID were overwhelmingly from the placebo group.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Something doesn’t have to be perfect to be useful. Seatbelts won’t absolutely prevent death, but wearing them will increase your chances of survival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
Its funny, cause all those conspiracy theorist people who said it came from a lab and were censored are the same saying stay away from the vaccine, but what do they know. Keep following Fascist Fauci, you should be fine...he has never lied before. How someone can still trust the same organizations that have continued to lie to them and be wrong is beyond me...definition of insanity.
This is the sort of attitude I was discussing earlier. It seems pretty clear that you don’t trust the medical establishment. What you see as lies many see as false confidence coupled with genuine scientific uncertainty. The lab escape theory was plausible from the start. Chinese transparency will likely make it impossible to say one way or the other. The lab creation theory is implausible and far more frightening, because it would require Chinese technology to be secretly s lot more advanced than we thought.

I will agree that silencing even the mot blatant conspiracy theorists is counter-productive.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
5,633 posts, read 2,940,068 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
1. Do you know what ingredients are in the vaccine? If I gave you food and said "trust me" and I have zero liability would you take it? At least with food it goes through your system, while vaccines stay with you forever, but no big deal.

2. Again, nobody can answer why if an adult decides not to get vaccinated why its a big deal. If you trust the vaccine then why are you worried. Oh, its because this so called vaccine doesn't stop you from being infected or from transmitting the virus, it supposedly only keeps you from having more severe symptoms. Have to like that argument, what does it do, supposedly it keeps you from having 3 sniffles instead of 4.

Its funny, cause all those conspiracy theorist people who said it came from a lab and were censored are the same saying stay away from the vaccine, but what do they know. 3. Keep following Fascist Fauci, you should be fine...he has never lied before. How someone can still trust the same organizations that have continued to lie to them and be wrong is beyond me...definition of insanity.
1. Yes, and the mRNA doesn't stay with you forever, it's degraded by enzymes within weeks. Your immune system still has the "memory" of the stimulus in the form of complementary antibodies to the spike proteins (which are also degraded) made from the mRNA template, but that's how the vaccine works - it's the desired result.

2. First of all, I care about people besides myself, and vaccine refusal will increase the mortality and morbidity for Americans. Secondly, vaccine protection isn't perfect. Thirdly, having a larger pool of susceptible unvaccinated hosts not only increases transmission through society, it also allows more opportunity for the virus to evolve in the bodies of infected people and become even more dangerous. So vaccine refusal is bad for both the unvaccinated and the vaccinated, for multiple reasons.

3. I have heard all kinds of wild accusations made about Dr Fauci, none of which seem to have any substance. I am a scientist myself, and I admire the guy. He's not perfect, but no one is, and he's doing good work.

Last edited by OutdoorLover; 07-18-2021 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:34 AM
 
16,094 posts, read 11,812,741 times
Reputation: 8379
At this point, anybody who takes a look at the available data and comes away with the idea that the MRNA vaccine risks outweigh that of the COVID virus, proves that their judgement is so far off that there is no use in trying to reason with them. I pity anybody who will in the future be judged for participating in this Social Darwinism experiment.
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:12 AM
 
3,797 posts, read 2,342,865 times
Reputation: 3313
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
At this point, anybody who takes a look at the available data and comes away with the idea that the MRNA vaccine risks outweigh that of the COVID virus, proves that their judgement is so far off that there is no use in trying to reason with them. I pity anybody who will in the future be judged for participating in this Social Darwinism experiment.
^^^
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Woburn, MA / W. Hartford, CT
3,696 posts, read 3,287,145 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
I do believe the same organizations that have lied to me for the last year. They haven't been wrong yet, with not political influence at all. They are all about science, but yet show no peer reviewed studies to back their BS. Sorry, stop telling me I'm going to die if I don't get vaccinated when I'm a healthy 40 year old who already probably had the virus (was a little sick). When they start recognizing natural immunity and stop pushing a vaccine that only creates spike proteins then talk to me. Or when big pharm takes liability, or when they promote healthy living or drugs that work that they discredited, so they could push a vaccine...great. Or when they do at least 5 years of actual studies.
Using the logic of "natural immunity" (which I hear ad nauseum), you should just stop going to doctors for any treatment. Even cancer. Let your healthy body do its thing, and don't interfere with nature.

And last, this ain't about you. It's about us. Having thousands with your attitude, allows the virus to replicate, mutate, and evolve to where it *will* pose a threat to the vaccinated. You can literally walk into a grocery store or pharmacy and take a lifesaving vaccine, from which you will have likely minimal, temporary side effects, yet refuse to do it based on stupid pseudoscientific rationale.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,121 posts, read 3,957,624 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by htfdcolt View Post
Using the logic of "natural immunity" (which I hear ad nauseum), you should just stop going to doctors for any treatment. Even cancer. Let your healthy body do its thing, and don't interfere with nature.

And last, this ain't about you. It's about us. Having thousands with your attitude, allows the virus to replicate, mutate, and evolve to where it *will* pose a threat to the vaccinated. You can literally walk into a grocery store or pharmacy and take a lifesaving vaccine, from which you will have likely minimal, temporary side effects, yet refuse to do it based on stupid pseudoscientific rationale.
If the vaccines didn't work as well as the marketing said, and officials knew this going in, so they crafted a propaganda campaign that blaming the unvaccinated for the vaccines' shortcomings, and you parroted the propaganda...wouldn't it look exactly like what you just posted?

"The vaccines work, and if they don't, it's because of the people who didn't take the vaccines, because the vaccines work."

Ask yourself honestly, does that pass muster? Is it at all normal to take a vaccine and then obsess over whether other people are taking it, because "the virus might mutate" into something that evades the vaccine? Wouldn't it make more sense that it's the mass vaccination itself providing evolutionary pressure for variants that evade the vaccine-induced immunity (I am not claiming this is happening, but it seems more likely to me than the official narrative, which just doesn't add up).

We're supposed to get to a certain percentage of the population vaccinated, ignoring natural immunity apparently for no other reason than that's what Fauci and Biden and Pfizer board member Gottlieb command we do, and...then what? The virus stops mutating? A coronavirus? Stops mutating? Again, what is the precedent for this, and how is this supposed to play out in real life?

I think the answer is, it's not. That explains officials being evasive about the percentage of people they need to vaccinate for this to go away, to the point where their pattern of prevarications (or "pretzel logic," as my mother calls it) should drive any thinking person crazy. The only answer they ever have is, "it's not enough...if you're not vaccinated, get vaccinated." Seriously, the only answer they ever have. This doesn't feel wrong to you?

Last edited by tribecavsbrowns; 07-18-2021 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:44 PM
 
2,811 posts, read 5,039,565 times
Reputation: 2269
Quote:
Originally Posted by htfdcolt View Post
Using the logic of "natural immunity" (which I hear ad nauseum), you should just stop going to doctors for any treatment. Even cancer. Let your healthy body do its thing, and don't interfere with nature.

And last, this ain't about you. It's about us. Having thousands with your attitude, allows the virus to replicate, mutate, and evolve to where it *will* pose a threat to the vaccinated. You can literally walk into a grocery store or pharmacy and take a lifesaving vaccine, from which you will have likely minimal, temporary side effects, yet refuse to do it based on stupid pseudoscientific rationale.
I have no control over your immune system. I can't make you eat healthy food or exercise. Heart disease is the biggest killer, but yet we don't close fast food or force exercise, but for this virus, which we can't control or stop, we have to force healthy people to tiptoe around the unhealthy. This will never end, cause unhealthy people will always be at risk.

Viruses always mutate, and when they do its weaker. But in this case, they keep making it a pandemic that will never end, cause they have been wrong the entire time and don't want to admit it.

FYI, more people in the last two weeks have died from the vaccine then from the virus. I get it, its subjective but so aren't many covid deaths. I get it, don't believe it, but I know of no healthy people who have even come close to dying from this virus. But yet, I know of many who died (all older) within 2 weeks of the vaccine.

https://fbanews.org/2021/07/18/vaers...secutive-week/
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:51 PM
 
2,811 posts, read 5,039,565 times
Reputation: 2269
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
1. Yes, and the mRNA doesn't stay with you forever, it's degraded by enzymes within weeks. Your immune system still has the "memory" of the stimulus in the form of complementary antibodies to the spike proteins (which are also degraded) made from the mRNA template, but that's how the vaccine works - it's the desired result.

2. First of all, I care about people besides myself, and vaccine refusal will increase the mortality and morbidity for Americans. Secondly, vaccine protection isn't perfect. Thirdly, having a larger pool of susceptible unvaccinated hosts not only increases transmission through society, it also allows more opportunity for the virus to evolve in the bodies of infected people and become even more dangerous. So vaccine refusal is bad for both the unvaccinated and the vaccinated, for multiple reasons.

3. I have heard all kinds of wild accusations made about Dr Fauci, none of which seem to have any substance. I am a scientist myself, and I admire the guy. He's not perfect, but no one is, and he's doing good work.
This vaccine is still in experimental stage, which they don't tell people. Vaccines take 5 or more years before being approved, but they shoved this one down our throat. Amazing, that everyone I know who was sick before lockdowns and lived their life without any protections hasn't been sick since; while the only people I know that are sick are those vaccinated and who wear masks constantly. But sure, just cause UK and Isreale vaccinate everyone and 50% are still getting sick...lets not bring that up. Lets push that 99% of people sick are unvaccinated, which is complete garbage. Nobody can show me the study that shows that. It is based on an AP article that has no scientific backing, but they push it cause they don't want to admit the vaccine doesn't work.

So they keep saying its unvaccinated pushing variants, so what other flu or virus ever did this. Oh just this one, the same virus they haven't been right at all through the entire process.

I'm fine, I will bet my health in the next 4 to 5 years over almost anyone that is vaccinated. Don't worry about me, you are vaccinated, you should be fine.

By the way do you care about people with heart disease? We can actually control that unlike a virus which we can't and never have controlled.
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:15 PM
 
2,811 posts, read 5,039,565 times
Reputation: 2269
Just to scare you people even further, my family didn't follow any guidelines for Thanksgiving or Christmas. We had people over (most we already were sick before lockdowns), nobody got sick. Actually the only person in January that later got sick was the person at work that wore masks all the time. They tried saying it was covid, and it was bacterial pneumonia, which they refused to say mask related, but whatever. They kept testing him twice a day trying to make it covid.

So yes, I came up from a dangerous state at the time, didn't quarantine, and stayed with my mom. She was fine with it. I visited friends and family and not one person got sick. My dad is higher risk, we think already had it and I was around him and I was a little sick and he never got sick then. That is what they call immune and natural immunity.

And you can judge us, but one thing your forgetting we area all adults and can make our decisions based on risk. I don't need the government or a constant liar (Fauci) to tell me how to live. At this point we will be doing the same crap for every virus mutation cause they don't want to relinquish power or tell us how viruses really work. Not all viruses kill you and germs aren't all bad. By the way being around people builds your immune system.
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