Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Florida: how much, homes, school districts)

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I think you're not reading the graph well, but the original issue wasn't level of covid in wastewater, but community transmission. You said:



I asked for proof of that. You provided "proof" that shows the opposite. Similar spikes, but overall less now, with restaurants, bars, gyms, workplaces (largley) being open. It's showing a lower level of transmission when accounting for the variables including delta and the need for boosters in that timeframe, which one must do.

The graph doesn't show a lower level of anything; it shows a higher level of Sars-Cov-2, in Massachusetts wastewater, year-over-year, for the past four months or so. Is there some misunderstanding about the word "show" means?

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by timberline742

No, it doesn't. It shows reduced community transmission during a time where bars are open, restaurants open, clubs and gyms and more and more workplaces open, unlike December 2020. It's showing a considerable and impressive reduction in community transmission when comparing apples to apples and taking into account a more transmissible variable and the overlap in the need for boosters when they weren't available yet.

Don't confuse him. Controlled studies are anathema for the deniers!

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

The graph doesn't show a lower level of anything; it shows a higher level of Sars-Cov-2, in Massachusetts wastewater, year-over-year, for the past four months or so. Is there some misunderstanding about the word "show" means?

Yes, there is an inability to understand "show" on your part. You made a claim about community transmission being the same pre shot as to now. I asked for some back up to that. You provided wastewater treatment data which in no way "shows" data backing your claim. At all.

In fact, it shows the opposite. during 12/20 - 2/21, pre shots being made available to most people, we see sustained community transmission during when restaurants, churches, etc were shut down. We see nothing approaching those sustained levels (an indicator of community transmission) now when restaurants (etc) are wide open. That's showing the effectiveness in reducing community transmission of the vaccines.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Yes, there is an inability to understand "show" on your part. You made a claim about community transmission being the same pre shot as to now. I asked for some back up to that. You provided wastewater treatment data which in no way "shows" data backing your claim. At all.

In fact, it shows the opposite. during 12/20 - 2/21, pre shots being made available to most people, we see sustained community transmission during when restaurants, churches, etc were shut down. We see nothing approaching those sustained levels (an indicator of community transmission) now when restaurants (etc) are wide open. That's showing the effectiveness in reducing community transmission of the vaccines.

The graph doesn't say anything about restaurants, or churches, or what the standard is for a "sustained level," and it doesn't say anything at all about what late December 2021, January 2022, or February 2022 looks like (because those dates are in the future).

It just says that, continuously since August 2021, levels of Sars-Cov-2 in the wastewater in these parts of Massachusetts were higher than at the same time the previous year.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

The graph doesn't say anything about restaurants, or churches, or what the standard is for a "sustained level," and it doesn't say anything at all about what late December 2021, January 2022, or February 2022 looks like (because those dates are in the future).

Of course it does! How is it that hard to follow? The samples from early December 2020 were taken during a time when most major COVID restrictions were still in place meaning we reached those high levels back when most places (restaurants, churches, public buildings, stores, etc.) were operating at drastically reduced capacity. Bars were essentially closed (you could not serve alcohol without food). Stadiums and arenas weren't hosting crowds, concerts and shows were shuttered, most movie theaters were closed, indoor play places and facilities were limited or closed entirely, and masks were required just about everywhere.

In December 2021, just about all of those restrictions are gone (masks are still required indoors in some communities). All of those places are open at capacity and many without mask requirements. It's been this way for about 8 months. So when you show wastewater numbers for this December that are comparable to last December's, it's fair to say we've slowed community spread because people are gathering at far greater volumes and in closer quarters than they were at this point in 2020. It's pretty clear. The fact that hospitalizations and deaths are also significantly lower now than in 2020 (and disproportionately higher among the unvaccinated) makes it abundantly obvious that the vaccines are working.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Of course it does! How is it that hard to follow? The samples from early December 2020 were taken during a time when most major COVID restrictions were still in place meaning we reached those high levels back when most places (restaurants, churches, public buildings, stores, etc.) were operating at drastically reduced capacity. Bars were essentially closed (you could not serve alcohol without food). Stadiums and arenas weren't hosting crowds, concerts and shows were shuttered, most movie theaters were closed, indoor play places and facilities were limited or closed entirely, and masks were required just about everywhere.

In December 2021, just about all of those restrictions are gone (masks are still required indoors in some communities). All of those places are open at capacity and many without mask requirements. It's been this way for about 8 months. So when you show wastewater numbers for this December that are comparable to last December's, it's fair to say we've slowed community spread because people are gathering at far greater volumes and in closer quarters than they were at this point in 2020. It's pretty clear. The fact that hospitalizations and deaths are also significantly lower now than in 2020 (and disproportionately higher among the unvaccinated) makes it abundantly obvious that the vaccines are working.

Right? It's really obvious looking at it.

Also, they aren't that comparable. A blip of a spike is, but the surrounding data isn't... which is again, indicative of lack of sustained community transmission even without the restrictions. It's great news.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Of course it does! How is it that hard to follow? The samples from early December 2020 were taken during a time when most major COVID restrictions were still in place meaning we reached those high levels back when most places (restaurants, churches, public buildings, stores, etc.) were operating at drastically reduced capacity. Bars were essentially closed (you could not serve alcohol without food). Stadiums and arenas weren't hosting crowds, concerts and shows were shuttered, most movie theaters were closed, indoor play places and facilities were limited or closed entirely, and masks were required just about everywhere.

In December 2021, just about all of those restrictions are gone (masks are still required indoors in some communities). All of those places are open at capacity and many without mask requirements. It's been this way for about 8 months. So when you show wastewater numbers for this December that are comparable to last December's, it's fair to say we've slowed community spread because people are gathering at far greater volumes and in closer quarters than they were at this point in 2020. It's pretty clear. The fact that hospitalizations and deaths are also significantly lower now than in 2020 (and disproportionately higher among the unvaccinated) makes it abundantly obvious that the vaccines are working.

I don't know what your standard for "comparable" is, but the 2021 numbers are higher, and not just for December. For August through the present. Is this true, or not? Is this what the graph says, or not? Here it is, one more time, for reference: https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm

Hint: "It's true, but..." is an acceptable form of response.

[rach5]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/co...ses/index.html
Cornell shutting moving online in the middle of final exams after 500 covid cases within a few days. Omicron surging through the vaccinated campus.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

I don't know what your standard for "comparable" is, but the 2021 numbers are higher, and not just for December. For August through the present. Is this true, or not? Is this what the graph says, or not? Here it is, one more time, for reference: https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm

Hint: "It's true, but..." is an acceptable form of response.

Right, but not drastically higher and as has been pointed out before, it's the deaths and hospitalizations that matter much more than the case numbers. Those remain significantly lower, especially so among the vaccinated. All of this within a society that has largely returned to normal (as opposed to being all but locked down at this time last year) is a pretty good indicator of progress.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Right, but not drastically higher and as has been pointed out before, it's the deaths and hospitalizations that matter much more than the case numbers. Those remain significantly lower, especially so among the vaccinated. All of this within a society that has largely returned to normal (as opposed to being all but locked down at this time last year) is a pretty good indicator of progress.

Not higher at all, actually. And the distribution with the important details (we are effectively wide open, vs effectively shut down) shows clear reduction in community transmission, thankfully.