Economic pain train's a coming (renting, co-ops, school)

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by id77

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I agree this virus is not going away and there will be deaths from it 20 years now. We'll also quickly (in a year or so) find a new equilibrium and adjust to living with it, and people will begin to revert to their old habits.

I think many people in many places have not changed "old habits." The outbreaks in meat production plants, the overwhelming issue of elder care places- the workers are bringing this in and most likely are not at all practicing physical distancing and masks, and don't live alone. I'm also sure that many people who are positive/asymptomatic (or pre-) are certainly visiting friends and family at home. The numbers will be higher in more dense areas like major cities, but the infection rate is going to be high. My unfortunate observation.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by OtterTrees

They don't need to continue once the lease is up. If they can save money on overhead, why wouldn't they? Most people seem more productive WHM than at the office. They can still do in person meetings and projects as needed. It is a win-win.

That's kinda a deeper question. It's obviously private but does anyone know when major leases are up in Boston based employers?

Don't get me wrong I'm sure higher cost areas can be worth it depending on the clientele but this is different. I managed a guy that worked at Walgreens in the past. He said the boston store has a rent of five figures. The place has sushi on the second floor so it obviously can get more $$. But how many are going to go there now? Long ago I saw a box store move from the Kingston Mall to Plymouth's Colony Place. They literally went two miles down the street for cheaper rents. So it isn't that far out there.

You have to think in aggregate. If they lift everything I highly doubt the MBTA will be full. Trains don't even have open windows. There's no way it is going to be full. So if everyone that comes "back" drives in traffic could be even worse. There's the time of working on the job but there's also the time getting to the job and dealing with it. Getting gas, shoveling off snow, dealing with traffic, accidents. And you can't do anything with this time. If transit was working and safe they could at least check email and make phone calls. Now you can do it all.

We cannot be afraid of doing things online. What happened with retail in the past 10-15 years is indicative of much of the rest of the employment sector. Heck I know some employees of a town that openly question why the town hall is even open. All bill paying is online, requests for records is online, all meetings are put online...so.....

[Bridge781]

Companies would save a ton not renting in Boston obviously. there’s been talk of my group sharing a space with another group when this is all over. Sounds like the idea is I would come in 2 or 3 days a week then work from home the other days and someone else would sit at my desk.

I would love to only have to go in once or twice a week. I do think people need to let go of this need to commute 30 to 60 min to an office where you sit for 8 to 9 hours a day 5 days a week. I think that is something that we simply don’t need to be doing. I’m fine with being there sometimes for face to face but it’s almost a waste of time to do it 40 hours a week. I’ve been getting my work done working from home, I don’t have to commute. I can’t take breaks and get little things done around the house. In the office people do take breaks whether it be to talk to co workers, take a walk, go to the gym.

As someone else pointed out traffic will be a nightmare once people do start to go back. Less people will want to be on the train. I’m in the continue to #stayhome club.
T

[porterhouse]

Certainly companies can make decisions when their lease up and there has been a gradual acceptance of remote work even before this. That it would accelerate somewhat makes sense. It is worth keeping in mind that the average commercial lease is 3-5 years, so people who previously went into an office and think their WFH will be permanent may be in for a surprise. Even if they believe it is a win win, their companies and bosses may not feel that way. Executive level clients of mine are already concerned that many of their employees are not being as productive as they think they are currently. In many circumstances there is no replacement for face-to-face interaction.

[Bridge781]

See the thought that these people ‘think’ their employees are being less productive is what ruins it. Is it just a feeling or they have data to prove that employees are less productive at home? No need to make an employee trudge into the office during these times to make a manager feel more comfortable with himself. Trust in the people you’ve hired.

[mdovell]

I was listening to a podcast that Goldman Sachs officially says they can work at home but then says there's only so much you can do at home. That might be more to some of the systems. Having wifi to a modern laptop is one thing. A bloomberg terminal is another (20-25K per seat)

An employee can eat what they want without the employer worrying about allergies or need of having a fridge
An employee can listen to whatever music they want without headphones or bothering anyone
An employee can go to a bathroom whenever they want, heck take a shower
An employee can turn up or down the heat or ac without bothering someone else
Any personal items have full accommodations. Art work, plants, coffee maker, kitchen etc

then add in cost savings of security, parking, energy use, ADA etc In short buildings are expensive and when you look at all the regulations of public and private buildings it adds up. Obviously if it is a factory that produces a given good that can't really be done at home. But for office based environments you create some form of data (text documents, spreadsheets, presentations, databases, audio, video etc) and share it with others.

The other thing that might come from this is for the next school year going forward there's no snow days. It would be logically impossible to argue that we should have snow days if entire months of education can be done online.

[mmyk72]

Not only these, in the name of boosting morale and attracting and retaining top diverse talent, a lot of people use their work time to organize events like Earth Day, Black History month, Asian Heritage month, Hispanic Heritage month, Veterans week, LGBT, Women's Network and many others. Add up all the hours put into these events by the organizers and participants - none are directly related to core work. Plus the cost of materials like decoration, tshirts, giveaways and catering. Not saying there isnt a valid return on investment or benefit to the company, but these feel good events can easily cost $1 mil in a year considering how much employees are paid. That's just 1 location and my company has many others.

[Bridge781]

Im so over those type of work events. I’m 41 and maybe others deserve to experience them. They can commute to the office in a pandemic to organize them. I could care less about going out for after work drinks or sitting in on a meeting about any of those things mentioned above. Sorry not sorry. Been there done that.

[BostonMike7]

Putting aside the events of the pandemic and only speaking about work, I can actually say my personal morale has gone up since WFH was widely put into place at my company.

I'm deemed "essential" to the company so I do actually need to go into the office. Right now I've settled into a routine of 2-3 days a week of driving in, for about 4-6 hours. Rest of time I am purely WFH. My team (I have 8 direct reports) have a mix of WFH and office time as well. No prob getting in touch with them and I see them being productive.

I have less distraction and get more done during WFH. I also have the luxury of some stress relief with various activities I can do at home. I can walk to my fridge and get lunch. I can mow my lawn during lunch break (doubling as exercise) and eliminating the commute has saved me money and traded that time for time spent working instead.

In terms of our office, we still need the lab space, but now 50 cubes could be eliminated leaving about 25 for those who need access to the building. That space could be turned into much needed additional lab or storage space. We can expand the building into the parking lot now given that we have less parking requirements (this was something that was debated last year but stalled due to needing to provide parking for everyone.

I wouldn't mind living further from work now given that I don't go into the office every day, and traffic has dropped off considerably. Hopefully this remains the case if WFH gains a wider foothold.

Post-pandemic..i wouldn't mind keeping the current system. Previously, I did 1 day per week of WFH.

[yesmaybe]

There's a huge difference between:
WFH when it snows
WFH once a week, maybe on Friday
WFH most of the time, maybe a couple meetings every so often (I am familiar with this)
WFH 24/7 (like it is now basically)

For WFH most/all the time to work, you need employees that know what they are doing. People who know what they are doing typically want more money. I'm telling you, in a WFH most/all situation companies won't be here and "Middle Class"+ won't be either because they either want cheaper housing or better weather.