Advice for employees being told to return to work under questionable circumstances?

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Read a couple interesting articles last night about a scenario where an owner secures a PPP loan and asked employees to come back and they were all upset.

Seems they were earning more on unemployment than if they went back to their jobs.


Interesting situation....

Especially with the extra $600, I could see that.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Especially with the extra $600, I could see that.

And if you are making more on unemployment, why would you want to go back to work at a high-risk job for less money?


Actually, lets look at it this way. Say unemployment was capped at your actual previous salary and you had a high risk job putting you in contact with people every single day. Would you want to go back to that, or would you rather sit back and wait it out?

So I totally get it.

[simplexsimon]

It doesn't sound like the owner is doing anything unethical. He's taking government money and is using it for its intended purpose. He's even paying a higher wage than before maybe to make up for lack of tips.

[mdovell]

I have a relative in the midwest in an odd situation like that but she's also pregnant!

Anyways if he took the PPP then he can require people to go back to work. For the purposes of UI if you are offered to come back you cannot deny that and also collect. Remember he has to submit paperwork for your UI so if you go against it you'll get off.

What sucks about this to be blunt is if you are waitstaff and it's still takeout only naturally you won't get tips..or at least nearly as much. What some might not understand is that UI for waitstaff is based on hourly earnings, tips don't factor into it. Don't get me wrong if you have a great crowd and people that tip high it can be a great side job. But for full time work when the economy slows it just sucks.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

It doesn't sound like the owner is doing anything unethical. He's taking government money and is using it for its intended purpose. He's even paying a higher wage than before maybe to make up for lack of tips.

Servers are normally required to report their daily tips (over $20) to the employer and that number will appear on their W-2's. Those reported tips are covered as part of the PPP.

As for the extra $600 a week, it's a flaw of the system. The federal government did not put a limit on paying out more than income. Let's take someone in TN making $20 an hour. $800 gross less 15% for taxes so take home is $680 week. That person qualifies for $325 a week from the state and $600 from the feds so a gross of $925. Put that 15% away for taxes and take home is $786.25. Why go back to work??

[ritas11]

Originally Posted by robr2

The rule is that 75% of the loan has to be spent on payroll within 8 weeks. They need to bring staffing up to the levels noted in their application in order to have the loan forgiven. Your boss can pay you to stay home but I'm guessing he'd like to be able to use labor to perform other tasks so the restaurant will be ready to open when things are lifted.

BTW, are you earning more on unemployment than going back to work? I believe If you refuse a similar job/similar pay offer offer while unemployed, you will lose your unemployment benefits.

Since servers make a varied amount (I could make $20 in a day or $200 in a day depending volume and generosity of tippers). With the extra $600 it is about evening out for a week's worth of work. I'd take much less money a week if I could stay home safe until things feel more certain. It's less about the money and more about staying healthy & keeping some kind of job security. This feels like a weird predicament to be in, I don't want to screw over my work with the loan but I also feel we could have been asked this earlier rather than pressured into it now.

[ritas11]

My dilemma right now is figuring out if I can get fired for declining to go in? I know I can't collect, but health and protecting my family is more important to me than money. My mom lives off an inhaler and I do not want to risk bringing anything back to her. It is disheartening that this could go on for much longer than projected and I won't be able to have any income for even longer, and that's also where I feel it is unethical to force your staff to come in when the ban hasn't even been lifted yet. My boss said he thinks we will be able to fully open by May 11th.....we are a busy bar/restaurant. I don't see how that will be safe.

Also a side note, I know my coworkers very well and I have a difficult time believing any of them will wear masks for 8 hour shifts. The relationship between managers and employees and their general code of conduct is VERY loose, casual and not professional. That can make for a fun place to work but a concerning place to return during a pandemic. I have a feeling that if I choose to go in, I will see that behavior confirmed, get upset and leave. I know that the people staffed there currently (just the cooks, cleaner and manager) do not wear masks.

He wrote to us in a group chat that we will all wear masks and gloves, but he also said we will rotate shifts and then later on the phone told me we will be full staffed. Feels like he was covering himself via text...

[skeddy]

he's following the rules for the PPP, he's doing nothing wrong. If you don't want to go back, don't, find something else that you're more comfortable with.

[ritas11]

Originally Posted by skeddy

he's following the rules for the PPP, he's doing nothing wrong. If you don't want to go back, don't, find something else that you're more comfortable with.

Now that I know more about PPP, I do understand there's nothing I can really do, but I wish they made it less of a lose-lose for the workers. I want to return when we have a more definitive timeline as to when it's safe to, but I don't fully trust the safety protocol that is said to be implemented when they seem to care little about the virus. My workplace has a very large St Patrick's Day event every year and in the midst of Governor Baker putting the ban for bars in effect, they moved the event to an earlier date rather than protect employees and customers. One of my coworkers contracted covid-19 right after that.

Can they fire me for declining the hours right now until the governor gives more clarity on when the ban will be lifted?

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by mdovell

...

What sucks about this to be blunt is if you are waitstaff and it's still takeout only naturally you won't get tips..or at least nearly as much. What some might not understand is that UI for waitstaff is based on hourly earnings, tips don't factor into it. Don't get me wrong if you have a great crowd and people that tip high it can be a great side job. But for full time work when the economy slows it just sucks.

In my little Colorado town, I have been wildly overtipping for every takeout and it is certainly appreciated. One higher-end place is adding 20% to each bill, be it for takeout food or the bulk groceries they now carry. I hate to think that anyone getting an order from a higher-end place would stiff the staff, but... I waitressed at lower-end places back in the day and I know it happens.