Are there signs of people leaving Boston for cheaper parts of the state yet? (Worcester: rent, insurance)

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by porterhouse

It’s not going to. I have several fortune 100 clients where there are rumblings of significant Q4 RIFs.

I'm getting calls from job placement recruiters and staffing agencies daily. I've never had this many calls/emails/requests to place people. It's to the point now where I have turned off my Linked-in account, and screen my calls. I would venture to guess RIF's are already underway in some places.


I really can't complain about our industry here. We anticipated a Q3 dropoff, but it never materialized and we have had record quarters. That's without any RIF, salary cuts, or any other cost-saving measures. None. They paid out a +10% salary "appreciation" bonus to employees who came into the office April-May-June. (Myself included) Now we are forecasting a strong Q4. Our 2020 bonuses and COL merit increases went through as normal. They've already let us know our 2021 bonus will pay out at a higher rate due to our strong year. Really strange. I've seen the industry change though VERY quickly, so I'm not going to let this go to my head.

We've kept about 25-50% of the workforce in office since March, and that's mostly manufacturing and tech people who need access to lab equipment. Everyone else is still WTF for the near future with no end stated at this point. I'm personally in the office 2 days a week.

[id77]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

Boston is for the super Elite and young who want to have fun. Nothingf in between anymore.

My dads friend just dropped 13 million for a brownstone in the Back Bay while my three middle income friends escaped to the suburbs.

I think the real rift is in the cheaper condos within Boston that used to go to slumlord investors as rentals or were picked up by a student's parents while they did their residency at a local hospital. Those are the places at risk of a small price drop right now, and people who can choose between a 600 square foot 1 bedroom/1 bathroom in the city versus a SFH in a suburb are choosing suburbs a bit more often now. The stuff with multiple beds and baths and has outdoor space is still a hot ticket in Boston; after all, if you can have the space while staying in the city, why wouldn't you?

I myself just picked up a place with multiple beds, baths and outdoor space between Clarendon and Berkeley. I'm hardly super elite, though -- I'm more like 3 rungs up from the bottom.

[id77]

Originally Posted by Bridge781

I don’t see many places doing this. Earlier above I mentioned that our dean thinks we could be working from home for years. I also wonder if wrongful termination lawsuits could evolve out of this If people are forced to returned to work. With so few layoffs in the Boston area it also makes me feel like obviously remote work is working. Our department financials ended up being better than expected. seems like some people feel threatened by the whole work from home thing being successful.

It's not threatened, it's recognizing Dunning-Kruger. 90% of the people WFH right now think they're just as productive as they were in an office, but they're not. The bar for productivity has dropped during the pandemic. Financials being better than expected is not the same as financials being as good as they could be. Offices are expensive to maintain but they're worth it if the output from employees generates the revenue to make up for it compared to letting people slum it from home.

I'm laughing at the wrongful termination suit idea, though. Once the state/fed officially declares it safe to return to an office, and the employer is complying with all regulations, an employee who refuses to work despite that compliance isn't going to have much of a case for wrongful termination. They knew the rules and chose not to follow them.

Remote work will work for a few. It isn't going to work for most. Those that think they've broken through into a new dream will eventually find that dream ending and them being dragged kicking and screaming back to reality in a year or two. Even Big Tech, which has always been pro-telecommuting, has some major companies who are already working on their return-to-the-office strategy.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

That's why you force them back into the office, some will quit. Save you the expense of laying them off.

Legally you can't force them back. It would be very hard to prove it in court if you can do the work online. Most employment attorneys would argue if there is no quantifiable difference in production and quality then they're no legal way to do it. Phone numbers can be rerouted, video works, drop box is simple etc.

Read this long article about NYC. Now keep in mind I was just there in February and saw book of Mormon (highly recommended) first I thought a blog no big deal. Yeah he's an angel investor that has been there for decades

https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/nyc-i...ver-heres-why/

Many businesses need volume to justify operating. They can't just raise prices. The virtual is replacing the physical it's been that way for decades.

Online schools, movies streaming and theater, delivering goods internationally with easy apps

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by id77

It's not threatened, it's recognizing Dunning-Kruger. 90% of the people WFH right now think they're just as productive as they were in an office, but they're not. The bar for productivity has dropped during the pandemic. Financials being better than expected is not the same as financials being as good as they could be. Offices are expensive to maintain but they're worth it if the output from employees generates the revenue to make up for it compared to letting people slum it from home.

I'm laughing at the wrongful termination suit idea, though. Once the state/fed officially declares it safe to return to an office, and the employer is complying with all regulations, an employee who refuses to work despite that compliance isn't going to have much of a case for wrongful termination. They knew the rules and chose not to follow them.

Remote work will work for a few. It isn't going to work for most. Those that think they've broken through into a new dream will eventually find that dream ending and them being dragged kicking and screaming back to reality in a year or two. Even Big Tech, which has always been pro-telecommuting, has some major companies who are already working on their return-to-the-office strategy.

Agree.

I see a lot of people thinking that is is going to be the new norm. I think unless coronavirus lasts for another 10 years this isn't going to have a lasting impact.

I think all that this has proven to me is that WFH is way worse in term of productivity than being on site.
Where I work pretty much everyone has been back full time for a couple of months.

[Bridge781]

Well it seems like it’s the new norm for my dept

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by Bridge781

Well it seems like it’s the new norm for my dept

Do you see this staying in, say, 2022?

In my opinion IF we get rid of covid in 2021 by 2022 everything will be back to where it was in 2019. If, for whatever reason, the virus stays around longer term then I can see a more permanent change that will stay in place even after the virus will be gone. But the virus need to be active for years for that to happen.
Going to put away my crystal ball now

[sawyer2]

Originally Posted by id77

It's not threatened, it's recognizing Dunning-Kruger. 90% of the people WFH right now think they're just as productive as they were in an office, but they're not. The bar for productivity has dropped during the pandemic. Financials being better than expected is not the same as financials being as good as they could be. Offices are expensive to maintain but they're worth it if the output from employees generates the revenue to make up for it compared to letting people slum it from home.

Agreed

Furthermore, we have friends who are home with young kids and say that they are just as productive now .... either delusional, or more likely they were not very productive in the office pre-COVID

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Most employment attorneys would argue if there is no quantifiable difference in production and quality then they're no legal way to do it.

And there is. Collaboration, Communication is far worse WFH. It'd be tough to argue that employees can't go into the office when they were doing so before the pandemic started.

Edit: I think I mentioned it here, I interviewed for a position last year where the opening was due to the previous employee quitting because the company revoked WFH privileges and he lived pretty far.

[porterhouse]

Originally Posted by sawyer2

.... either delusional, or more likely they were not very productive in the office pre-COVID

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