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Old 01-21-2021, 10:11 AM
 
2,275 posts, read 1,317,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
This shows a few different density/neighborhood scenarios

https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/05/...tible-density/
Awesome, thanks! Pretty much 15/ac is at the border between single-family and multifamily.
I would assume in suburban MA it would be more multifamily types.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:43 AM
 
3,808 posts, read 3,102,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampert View Post
Awesome, thanks! Pretty much 15/ac is at the border between single-family and multifamily.
I would assume in suburban MA it would be more multifamily types.
Emerson Green's phase 1 development in Devens is, IMO, a good local example of responsible future housing development for lower density suburban towns ... if those towns are willing to ease acreage mins.

The development is fairly dense (relative to neighboring Groton, Harvard, Shirley), but maintains the primary appeals of SFH living. It's nowhere near as dense as the planned phase 2 multi-fam developments, but I think it's the right approach for more upscale communities in the immediate metro west which value their conservation land and buildings which reflect the 'New England vernacular'.

Here's some other examples which mix both SFH dwellings and cheaper to build multi-fam structures:
Cottages on Greene | Union Studio
North Cove Landing | Union Studio
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:45 AM
 
Location: The Moon
1,717 posts, read 1,785,944 times
Reputation: 1918
Those are some forward thinking developers. I toured one last year and would happily live somewhere like that minus the ordinance demolition training explosions and treetop flyers at 3am. But that is exactly what these towns should be emulating.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:50 AM
 
23,087 posts, read 18,235,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
I’ve seen it in Maryland’s elite and upper middle income locales-they love it. In reality anyone not familiar with the town as is won’t see it as detracting from the town. Simply because high density housing near transit is very normal/expected. The total land area is a drop in the bucket compared to any given towns total land area. This is fantastic news and no doubt will ease some of the pressure in the urban core.

Falls Church VA: https://goo.gl/maps/EKnTdoP2XURfL88s5
Alexandria VA: https://goo.gl/maps/RoY58NsLJRLDniqw7
Shady Grove MD: https://goo.gl/maps/gMDB3fwSFNMHzpJ57
Owing Mills MD: https://goo.gl/maps/HR711atnQjBMD1AK6

Shady Grove is very nice, and I always wondered why they couldn't build stuff like that near Boston. A place like University Ave. in Westwood/Canton would have been perfect for that imo. Instead we got a glamorized strip mall.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:55 AM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,740,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
Someone more versed in public policy could probably explain the impact, but this is the relevant passage from H.5250:

"b) An MBTA community that fails to comply with this section shall not be eligible for funds from: (i) the Housing Choice Initiative as described by the governor in a message to the general court dated December 11, 2017; (ii) the Local Capital Projects Fund established in section 2EEEE of chapter 29; or (iii) the MassWorks infrastructure program established in section 63 of chapter 23A."

Line 1312 is where the description of the zoning requirements begin. The funding and zoning impacts will be very variable depending on the circumstances for each town. Here are the 2020 MassWorks grants that were given out for example. I am honestly surprised this isn't getting much press, it has some very drastic implications.
massworks is huge to say the least.

When they say MBTA community though is that counting just the stops or where the rail actually goes though? I know of towns without stops.

But the biggest change is moving away from a 2/3rds majority to just a majority. Say you have a seven member board. You'd need about five to move it. Now it's four. Say you have a city council of 15. It used to be 10 and now it's 8. Same thing. A few people can block many projects.

5 million for gateway cities for market rate housing also helps. Springfield keeps building more. I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 it grows to 160-165K
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Old 01-21-2021, 11:40 AM
Status: "On my way to sunny South Carolina" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Massachusetts & Hilton Head, SC
9,915 posts, read 15,482,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post

When they say MBTA community though is that counting just the stops or where the rail actually goes though? I know of towns without stops.
It says 1/2 mile from a station, so no.

Last edited by CaseyB; 01-21-2021 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,428 posts, read 12,424,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Shady Grove is very nice, and I always wondered why they couldn't build stuff like that near Boston. A place like University Ave. in Westwood/Canton would have been perfect for that imo. Instead we got a glamorized strip mall.
Yea this is one of the big differences I’ve seen between MD and MA. The hesitation to build apartment complexes. There’s more of them in Maryland, more new ones, more old ones, more that look mid tier, more townhome developments for the middle class and practical folks. As a result the state has higher household income, and much lower housing prices. People are more geographically mobile within the state and easily able to live near opportunities that suit them. but of course they have county wide planning and count executives so it apples to oranges.

I make the comparison because they’re similarly sized states, both are older states. Maryland is the 5th densest state In The union after CT and MA. but central Maryland (between Bmore and DC) is quite dense. Similar commuter rail systems and rapid transit systems (MARC, Commuter rail) (WMATA, MBTA).


Look at this development in Fulton MD -smack betweenDC and Bmore, this is basically Mansfield in MA..

https://goo.gl/maps/Eg9sVkz9QuGKJgLn7

New suburban development near a filled in Quarry outside of Baltimore. It’s branded towards high end folks and is successful but the demand for suburban living is obviously higher in the Bmore area than in Boston. What’s more is the nearest train station is 3.5 miles from here. This is Pikesville,Maryland a large unincorporated community of Jewish American just north of Baltimore City limits. Because it’s an unincorporated place it’s just way easier to get things approved because the country doesn’t have to cave to the local populace. And it’s not like Pikesville is some new sunbelt locale. It was settled sometime around 1818.

As a result of county wide planning Pikesville has an economic mix you can’t find in Boston suburbs. With 25% of its population making over 150k and 25% making under 45k. A third of the town make between 75k and 149k. 72% white and 18% African American. 32% of folks have a masters degree or higher. 71% say there’s a good sense of community. https://www.niche.com/places-to-live...-md/residents/

https://goo.gl/maps/5MktYrY8zQQBwyK4A
https://goo.gl/maps/kbrkTrg29CFjABibA
https://goo.gl/maps/okAATZsryVquRVfe9
https://goo.gl/maps/ewTMvs3mbvvTeSFf9
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:33 PM
 
23,087 posts, read 18,235,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
New suburban development near a filled in Quarry outside of Baltimore. It’s branded towards high end folks and is successful but the demand for suburban living is obviously higher in the Bmore area than in Boston. What’s more is the nearest train station is 3.5 miles from here. This is Pikesville,Maryland a large unincorporated community of Jewish American just north of Baltimore City limits. Because it’s an unincorporated place it’s just way easier to get things approved because the country doesn’t have to cave to the local populace. And it’s not like Pikesville is some new sunbelt locale. It was settled sometime around 1818.

As a result of county wide planning Pikesville has an economic mix you can’t find in Boston suburbs. With 25% of its population making over 150k and 25% making under 45k. A third of the town make between 75k and 149k. 72% white and 18% African American. 32% of folks have a masters degree or higher. 71% say there’s a good sense of community. https://www.niche.com/places-to-live...-md/residents/

https://goo.gl/maps/5MktYrY8zQQBwyK4A
https://goo.gl/maps/kbrkTrg29CFjABibA
https://goo.gl/maps/okAATZsryVquRVfe9
https://goo.gl/maps/ewTMvs3mbvvTeSFf9

So basically the Quarry Hills in Quincy, yet look at the how much of the footprint went to housing in that case:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Qu...3!4d-71.034186


And now golf courses are closing left and right. Such a waste...


I don't know if it's the mentality that needs to change or what. Maybe if we had more local examples of townhouse communities that were classy/attractive, modern and well designed like that, people would warm up to them more. IDK.
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,428 posts, read 12,424,419 times
Reputation: 11108
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
So basically the Quarry Hills in Quincy, yet look at the how much of the footprint went to housing in that case:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Qu...3!4d-71.034186


And now golf courses are closing left and right. Such a waste...


I don't know if it's the mentality that needs to change or what. Maybe if we had more local examples of townhouse communities that were classy/attractive, modern and well designed like that, people would warm up to them more. IDK.
Similar but it looks way better than Quincy. It includes high-end suburban office space, a medical center fr the Baltimore Rvanes, bars, and retail.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3843...7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ri...6!4d-76.688022

It is just a more cohesive and better land-scaped version which makes sense because it's a suburban area not a City like Quincy. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3853...7i16384!8i8192

But note that Quincy definitely has the affordability that we need more of in Boston! Especially in terms of rentals.

More suburban areas in MA need Quarry Lakes-especially MetroWest. Because there too often clustered into urban municipalities where they're more poorly done, rushed and oversized IMO. Even Dedham executes poorly not classy and well-done. I do think it perpetuates a stigma.
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Old 01-21-2021, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,428 posts, read 12,424,419 times
Reputation: 11108
Other well-done examples of dense middle-class suburban housing

Garrison MD:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3960...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3967...7i13312!8i6656

affordable/lower income housing:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4644...7i13312!8i6656

Golf Courses are put in sensible areas: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4093...7i13312!8i6656

Still plenty low denisty metrowest/style nieghborhoods:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4176...7i13312!8i6656
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