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Another difference be could be the act that people don't need to or want to be out on the street corners as much as people in inner-city areas did back in 2000. Internet, cell phones, prescription drugs etc. In general street activity is less everywhere.
I agree with you and there's just a number of factors of why sometimes redevelopment just doesn't make sense al the time.
When I hear of these urges to bring restaurants, bars and retail to downtowns I have to ask what exactly the point is. Retail doesn't pay and frankly it's dying out. Bars are closed due to covid (unless there's food but still) restaurants are mostly takeout at least during the winter. I have family in restaurants and he does well but he's the owner. I don't think the average wait staff in most major cities can afford an apartment where they work. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think even with big tips that it's possible. Are these nice to have? Absolutely but focusing on low wage employment just to look busy doesn't solve anything in the long term.
Smart phones replaced cell phones, vending machines I'd argue are more apt to be used inside, ATMS are the same way..I'll *NEVER* use a fully outdoor ATM I don't care where it's just too risky. Food delivery is faster and easier these days. malls replaced downtowns and the internet replaced malls. A friend of mine kinda put it like this. Back in the day when there were big department stores and people shopped during the day it's because it was mostly housewives. No one is really going to take a day off of work to go shopping, especially when you can go online. Time is too important to just do that. I'd argue that daytime retail shopping is mostly the retirees and unemployed. Yeah precovid if something was close to work I get that. I hit grocery shopping on the way back because it cuts my time in half because I'm already going that direction. Just shooting the breeze and discovering a suit store at 1pm after lunch is more like a movie from the 30's.
So this brings up a redevelopment/development issue. What do people really want? Drug stores and grocery makes sense in person but the more we detach from needs it gets harder to get into wants and niche markets. Growing up I read comics. I don't think we'll find many being open to the public with covid. If libraries are closed I'd argue these are as well. I used to read Richard Florida but the more I look at him he doesn't get that much into real details and charges a ton for speaking fees ($50 webinar?!)
Generally cities attract people and businesses because the other exists in a higher concentration. Being able to walk to businesses and for businesses to have people walk in save both time and money....usually. Higher incomes and population density means higher commercial prices and this explains say midtown manhattan to say the midwest. But if the internet pretty much make something a commodity that can just be bought online that pretty much erodes development. We can try to have things that are more experiences. Sporting events, the arts, games (billiards, escape rooms) etc but it's not like every place can have all of this. People an areas can still be left behind.
I agree with you and there's just a number of factors of why sometimes redevelopment just doesn't make sense al the time.
When I hear of these urges to bring restaurants, bars and retail to downtowns I have to ask what exactly the point is. Retail doesn't pay and frankly it's dying out. Bars are closed due to covid (unless there's food but still) restaurants are mostly takeout at least during the winter. I have family in restaurants and he does well but he's the owner. I don't think the average wait staff in most major cities can afford an apartment where they work. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think even with big tips that it's possible. Are these nice to have? Absolutely but focusing on low wage employment just to look busy doesn't solve anything in the long term.
Smart phones replaced cell phones, vending machines I'd argue are more apt to be used inside, ATMS are the same way..I'll *NEVER* use a fully outdoor ATM I don't care where it's just too risky. Food delivery is faster and easier these days. malls replaced downtowns and the internet replaced malls. A friend of mine kinda put it like this. Back in the day when there were big department stores and people shopped during the day it's because it was mostly housewives. No one is really going to take a day off of work to go shopping, especially when you can go online. Time is too important to just do that. I'd argue that daytime retail shopping is mostly the retirees and unemployed. Yeah precovid if something was close to work I get that. I hit grocery shopping on the way back because it cuts my time in half because I'm already going that direction. Just shooting the breeze and discovering a suit store at 1pm after lunch is more like a movie from the 30's.
So this brings up a redevelopment/development issue. What do people really want? Drug stores and grocery makes sense in person but the more we detach from needs it gets harder to get into wants and niche markets. Growing up I read comics. I don't think we'll find many being open to the public with covid. If libraries are closed I'd argue these are as well. I used to read Richard Florida but the more I look at him he doesn't get that much into real details and charges a ton for speaking fees ($50 webinar?!)
Generally cities attract people and businesses because the other exists in a higher concentration. Being able to walk to businesses and for businesses to have people walk in save both time and money....usually. Higher incomes and population density means higher commercial prices and this explains say midtown manhattan to say the midwest. But if the internet pretty much make something a commodity that can just be bought online that pretty much erodes development. We can try to have things that are more experiences. Sporting events, the arts, games (billiards, escape rooms) etc but it's not like every place can have all of this. People an areas can still be left behind.
All this ground floor retail is just for commercial tax revenue dreams. It makes no sense on the ground. Often times those spaces are underutilized or vacant for many years. Restaurants are necessarily caused for people to live places either because not everyone you want to eat with lives where you do. And restaurants are all over. I look at a lot of this redevelopment as just natural it was either build something new or watch all of MA's 120-year-old buildings crumble. Buildings that were old and blighted in the 90s simply had to come down at some point. Doing so isn't impressive to me it's just functional but I do understand in some areas of the country things are left to rot indefinitely. Most places in MA are improving to some degree Worcester's standing relative to neighboring municipalities isn't going to be changing any time soon and the poverty isn't going to displaced outside of the city's enormous, and relatively affordable, borders anytime soon. This state is losing population now too. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/01/...massachusetts/
Worcester's standing relative to neighboring municipalities isn't going to be changing any time soon and the poverty isn't going to displaced outside of the city's enormous, and relatively affordable, borders anytime soon.
It's more affordable than Boston, but housing has spiked there as well. Still plenty of poverty left, although some has already been displaced to yet more affordable places like Southbridge, Fitchburg, etc. Not a mass exodus, but significant.
It's more affordable than Boston, but housing has spiked there as well. Still plenty of poverty left, although some has already been displaced to yet more affordable places like Southbridge, Fitchburg, etc. Not a mass exodus, but significant.
You sure that’s not just more immigrants arriving in Fitchburg and southbridge? and there are always more arriving in Worcester. The immigration well never dried in MA. Look at how many there are now compared to 10 years ago. That displacement is just speculation.
You sure that’s not just more immigrants arriving in Fitchburg and southbridge? and there are always more arriving in Worcester. The immigration well never dried in MA. Look at how many there are now compared to 10 years ago. That displacement is just speculation.
In both Fitchburg and Southbridge the percentage of foreign born is lower than the county and it a bit lower than 2 years ago though.
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You sure that’s not just more immigrants arriving in Fitchburg and southbridge? and there are always more arriving in Worcester. The immigration well never dried in MA. Look at how many there are now compared to 10 years ago. That displacement is just speculation.
I'm talking about people moving FROM Worcester TO these other places, maybe some immigrants but I have mostly natives in mind. Sure, there will be more to replace them (often immigrants). It's really not much different from Boston where one family might be prices out of their 3BR APT in a 3 decker to be replaced by multiple immigrant families piling up in a single unit. You also have a degree gentrification going on, particularly in the UMASS area where the rents have especially gone bonkers it's seemed.
In both Fitchburg and Southbridge the percentage of foreign born is lower than the county and it a bit lower than 2 years ago though.
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those were bad examples because they're Puerto Rican heavy cities.
All this ground floor retail is just for commercial tax revenue dreams. It makes no sense on the ground. Often times those spaces are underutilized or vacant for many years. Restaurants are necessarily caused for people to live places either because not everyone you want to eat with lives where you do. And restaurants are all over. I look at a lot of this redevelopment as just natural it was either build something new or watch all of MA's 120-year-old buildings crumble. Buildings that were old and blighted in the 90s simply had to come down at some point. Doing so isn't impressive to me it's just functional but I do understand in some areas of the country things are left to rot indefinitely. Most places in MA are improving to some degree Worcester's standing relative to neighboring municipalities isn't going to be changing any time soon and the poverty isn't going to displaced outside of the city's enormous, and relatively affordable, borders anytime soon. This state is losing population now too. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/01/...massachusetts/
Retail parking has always been a bit of a joke. I've seen games played as well. Some used to say that the black Friday imagery means that there's more people there shopping. I.e more cars = more shoppers. Yeah that might on the surface make sense but not really. I know of a home depot that's next to a bus lot. The bus lot charges for parking and home depot doesn't. Even when it's closed that home depots lot is half full. It's basically people that don't want to pay for parking. Generally a car is supposed to be one person but if you had a minivan with kids that can add up. Customer count does not mean revenue let alone profit. some just walk around. I've heard one manager complain about being with a customer for a half hour over a 50 cent item.
Now you do need logistics for shipping for retail and I've seen that in odd ways. City of Springfield's city hall has a one way traffic around it. There's some spaces for the city council and mayor but that's about it. But the hotels and restaurants near it also use that for loading docks. what's the worst that could happen... Eventually they they put a valet service in but before that it looked like a scene from Brooklyn "MOVE!" "NO *YOU MOVE*" etc.
Where does Chelsea fit in this conversation? Lot of talk about Lawrence, but how does Lawrence compare to Chelsea?
People I know with experience on the streets say Chelsea is a much gloomier place to be. It's the city under the bridge - 35,000 people crammed into 2.5 square miles. With a history of neglect, conflagrations, pollution, crime, and mental illness, Chelsea is one of the toughest places in the north east to live or work.
Still, Lawrence is last in Massachusetts cities and towns by per capita income (351 out of 351). It's not even close how far down the list Lawrence is. Lawrence residents earn less than half of the state average. When comparing Lowell or Lynn with Lawrence for example, neither is as economically depraved as Lawrence. Strangely, Lawrence hasn't completely lost it's shoe industry, with New Balance operating there. Top employers in Chelsea are the city, the state, Kayem hot dogs, and signiture bread (the shaw's brand).
Chelsea (347 out of 351) residents earn more than Lawrence but less than Lynn, while experiencing higher cost of living surrounded by some of the wealthiest communities in the United States. However, being so close to Boston provides limitless opportunity for those who can claw their way out.
My initial thoughts are that Chelsea and Lynn are most likely to become gentrified and give their residents a free commuter rail ride to Lawrence and Lowell. Covid likely reverses this trend, with more upper middle class families fleeing to the countryside. Perhaps denser development in Chelsea to open space for Lawrence residents to move closer to the city, which they'd rather do, and free up more of nothern ma to faux quaint New England town?
Central to this thread however, is the definition of a 'hood'. I won't get into that too much, but I suppose Chelsea is much more diverse. I'm not sure about the demographics on the streets. Not every hood is as bad as another. Some people refer to their hood positively, hoping to turn things around in their hood. For Chelsea and Lawrence, the problems run much deeper than being a hood.
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