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Old 01-20-2021, 10:36 AM
 
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I also agree that just because you share things in common with someone in terms of income, skin color and having a degree doesn't necessarily mean you will like each other.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The OP is upper income, not middle income. They want a town that has black white collar professionals as role models for their children. $100k in the Boston suburbs is middle income. The median income in the Boston metro is now about $90k.
If a black family at 100k lives in a 52k neighborhood is it a stretch to say a black family at 200k lives in a 100k neighborhood? Which you can find in parts of Randolph, Stoughton and, Dedham. They are viable options that offer different attributes.

Obviously, the general gist of what I'm saying is a pronounced trend, particularly in the Northeast. However, I do think Milton is the best fit. But there's not much for sale there. Also, consider Cambridge and Canton.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The OP is upper income, not middle income. They want a town that has black white collar professionals as role models for their children. $100k in the Boston suburbs is middle income. The median income in the Boston metro is now about $90k.

So a white collar professional earning $75k is not a good enough role model for their kids?


And if some town has a $90K median income, that means 50% of the town is above that. A town of 20K adults with 35% having college degrees, that's 7,000 people still. A community does not need to be exclusively affluent to find a suitable peer group.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
So a white collar professional earning $75k is not a good enough role model for their kids?


And if some town has a $90K median income, that means 50% of the town is above that. A town of 20K adults with 35% having college degrees, that's 7,000 people still. A community does not need to be exclusively affluent to find a suitable peer group.
Thank you, this is common sense.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:21 AM
 
3,199 posts, read 1,877,424 times
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
So a white collar professional earning $75k is not a good enough role model for their kids?


And if some town has a $90K median income, that means 50% of the town is above that. A town of 20K adults with 35% having college degrees, that's 7,000 people still. A community does not need to be exclusively affluent to find a suitable peer group.
Sure, but you school district will perform accordingly. For some $85-90k median districts this is a non-issue (IMO), in the case of Randolph is very much is an issue (IMO).

I don't see why an upper middle class person, regardless of race, would choose Randolph + private schooling versus Milton + public schooling, or the Dot + private schooling, or Cambridge + mix of public/private schooling, or Newton + public schooling, or ...

Unless OPs primary goal is to be a cultural contrarian, like the individuals who will twist themselves into the ground trying to convince us 'classists' that Somerville public schools are just as good as Lexington public if you control for x,y,z, then there are plenty of great *and* diverse districts available in the immediate Boston 'burbs. I don't know why people fight the statistical data on outcomes and the impact of income and education on said outcomes. I applaud people who acknowledge disparity and are willing to change perceptions from within, but unless there's also a significant lifestyle or commute advantage in doing so, I don't see the value in doing so beyond making an ethical or ideological statement.

Last edited by Shrewsburried; 01-20-2021 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
Sure, but you school district will perform accordingly. For some $85-90k median districts this is a non-issue (IMO), in the case of Randolph is very much is an issue (IMO).

I don't see why an upper middle class person, regardless of race, would choose Randolph + private schooling versus Milton + public schooling, or the Dot + private schooling, or Cambridge + mix of public/private schooling, or Newton + public schooling, or ...

I agree, that's why I would always say look at the schools themselves as well as the general vibe of the town which is also important. I did not recommend Randolph, primarily due to the high school. If one can't find a house in any of those mentioned towns (and Canton), I say Stoughton would be a better option than Randolph as is Dedham.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
I agree, that's why I would always say look at the schools themselves as well as the general vibe of the town which is also important. I did not recommend Randolph, primarily due to the high school. If one can't find a house in any of those mentioned towns (and Canton), I say Stoughton would be a better option than Randolph as is Dedham.
Agreed. I think I'm also losing sight of OPs post regarding a $200K+ income. That isn't necessarily 'elite' district income, though we don't know what their actual capital situation is. East Milton may very well be the top of their housing budget, though with this low rate environment one can stretch ... ignoring that competition within a given market might limit purchasing power regardless of their financing.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Hyde Park, MA
618 posts, read 732,610 times
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Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
I don't see why an upper middle class person, regardless of race, would choose Randolph + private schooling versus Milton + public schooling, or the Dot + private schooling, or Cambridge + mix of public/private schooling
You actually describe quite a bit of people I know (and also my own family). Choosing Randolph over Dot and Cambridge is mostly about 2 things. COL in Cambridge + the rapidly changing demographic. Folks may have high incomes but seeing their neighborhoods inundated with tech bros from all over the world isn't appealing to a lot of folks. Randolph isn't usually stop #1 for Cambridge minority families though (Belmont, Waltham, Woburn seem to be quite attractive though).

However for Dot? Yeah that's exactly who lives in Randolph now. No one want's to make a ton of money and still live in Franklin Field. Regardless of all the sterile buildings they are throwing up all over the city. This isn't just a Black thing either, many Vietnamese business owners live in Randolph as well. Original homes and businesses typically in the Fields Corner/Bowdoin area.

Randolph is a cheaper Milton for Black folks so no debate there. If you live in Randolph you almost certainly thought about Milton first.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:11 PM
 
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I can't quite figure out who the high income Dorchester earners are these days. There are definitely beautiful homes in the Ashmont/Melville at area that don't come cheap. It was once an area that attracted a lot of gay men but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. My co worker who is from the Midwest and came out here to go to Harvard now lives off of Melville ave. There's still quite a bit of crime in that area.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:36 PM
 
5,572 posts, read 5,090,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
Unless OPs primary goal is to be a cultural contrarian, like the individuals who will twist themselves into the ground trying to convince us 'classists' that Somerville public schools are just as good as Lexington public if you control for x,y,z, then there are plenty of great *and* diverse districts available in the immediate Boston 'burbs. I don't know why people fight the statistical data on outcomes and the impact of income and education on said outcomes. I applaud people who acknowledge disparity and are willing to change perceptions from within, but unless there's also a significant lifestyle or commute advantage in doing so, I don't see the value in doing so beyond making an ethical or ideological statement.
Spending money by itself does not automatically mean better performance. I've heard of some places in Lawrence that were spending 30K on student annually and the scores were better on the south shore with 12K. Vocational education generally always costs more per student, there's no way around that.

Parents matter. they really matter. Even before I went out with my girlfriend I could see the difference. Teachers teach and this shift we had last year of the teachers being heroes to then being enemies is weird. Many suburbs are not diverse. I went to one of the whitest high schools in the state at the time (still is). People get bored and they leave. Then the state came out with the reports on real estate agents pressuring people of color not to buy there which confirmed rumors I heard years ago. Student population is down at least 30% from peak. Actual population is down 4% from peak in 2014 and is now at 2008 levels. If it continues down the current rate (-0.5) it will lead to a population in 2030 that it had in 2000, meaning three lost decades. Affluency is fine but it doesn't mean much unless it's growing and sustainable. Independent businesses leave and eventually it's just chain stores and restaurants with very little tangible differences from buying a house for 200-300K less somewhere else. Affluent areas also tend to not like standardized tests which can show equality in districts with different incomes. They also don't like regional districts because that means more housing competition to get into the school district. All of this gets old fast.
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