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Old 02-05-2021, 06:17 PM
 
Location: East Coast
3,934 posts, read 2,551,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Not accurate at all. Naples/East Naples has long been a retirement destination for Boston people, to the point of where the term "Boston South" has been coined in reference to it. Lots of New Englanders in Fort Meyers, Sarasota, Northport, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Yep. In my father's generation, most people I know ended up west coast. There were probably 20 couples from my town on Longboat Key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
yea I think MA people go to the west coast of Florida, unless they're of latin/caribeean origin. Which is a smaller newer phenomenon.

NJ/NYers go towards Miami.
Ok, yeah, I remember going to see the Red Sox at their what was then a state of the art, brand new Spring Training facility which was somewhere near Naples. Perhaps that was part of the draw. But the Tampa/St. Pete area has a lot of Chicagoans and folks from other large cities in the midwest. (Although a large number of Chicagoans also head out to AZ.)
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:28 PM
 
3,680 posts, read 6,833,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Not accurate at all. Naples/East Naples has long been a retirement destination for Boston people, to the point of where the term "Boston South" has been coined in reference to it. Lots of New Englanders in Fort Meyers, Sarasota, Northport, etc.
As someone who lived in Naples from 1982-2017 I can assure you I never once in my entire life living there EVER heard East Naples be termed SOuth Boston. In fact in the 80’s and 90’s east Naples was undesirable for the most part and there wasn’t much there. It wasn’t actually the place to live until Lely was finally completed and that wasn’t until 2001. North Naples (Four Seasons, Naples Park, Pelican Bay, Vineyards) etc were where everyone was living. Most roads didn’t extend past the mall back then. East Naples was out of the question because it wasn’t hardly habitable. My father bought land in an “up and coming” neighborhood they were going to call San Carlos Park. We had to park our car on 41 and take 4 wheelers into the lot. At that time retirees were living closer to the beach. You could rent condos then for $300 a month on the water.

My parents owned Swim World in the 80’s and 90’s in east Naples but our north Naples location at the Pavilion was much more desirable. I’d argue New Yorkers had the jump on Naples LONG before New Englanders did. The joke always was the further south you go in Florida the more northern it gets. My family took the jump from the Bronx to Naples in ‘82. My husbands family (Boston) took the jump in 1999. Bostonians we’re going to the East cCoast, Port Charlotte, and Boca more in earlier years. It may have changed in the 4 years I’ve been gone but I can say I knew way more New Yorkers than Midwestern or Bostonians in Naples

Last edited by Sweetbottoms; 02-08-2021 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 02-08-2021, 07:57 PM
 
53 posts, read 15,809 times
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I honestly never understood the draw to crossing the border to NH. Sure, the houses are a bit cheaper than that part of Massachusetts, but you make up for the savings in property taxes. Also, so many of the good jobs are in Mass, so you still have to pay Mass income tax. You could just as easily move east of Worcester, get similarly priced houses and get the better social safety net of Mass. Remember, Worcester is roughly the same distance to Boston as Nashua and it has regular train service to town.

Sure, the White Mountains are better for hiking and skiing than the Berkshires, but how often are you going to go there?

Florida, I kinda get, just because the climate is better for so many people. I loathe suburban sprawl down there, but I could happily live in Key West, Miami Beach or some of the other more walkable and interesting areas.
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Old 02-08-2021, 08:13 PM
 
871 posts, read 380,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDee12345 View Post
I honestly never understood the draw to crossing the border to NH. Sure, the houses are a bit cheaper than that part of Massachusetts, but you make up for the savings in property taxes. Also, so many of the good jobs are in Mass, so you still have to pay Mass income tax. You could just as easily move east of Worcester, get similarly priced houses and get the better social safety net of Mass. Remember, Worcester is roughly the same distance to Boston as Nashua and it has regular train service to town.
Those people are working in 128, maybe 495 if you are talking about when people started going there.
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Old 02-08-2021, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDee12345 View Post
I honestly never understood the draw to crossing the border to NH. Sure, the houses are a bit cheaper than that part of Massachusetts, but you make up for the savings in property taxes. Also, so many of the good jobs are in Mass, so you still have to pay Mass income tax. You could just as easily move east of Worcester, get similarly priced houses and get the better social safety net of Mass. Remember, Worcester is roughly the same distance to Boston as Nashua and it has regular train service to town.
While I tend to agree, these days even the 'value' Worcester county towns like Sterling or Lancaster have higher per sqft costs than a top tier NH town like Hollis or Bedford. In Lancaster's case, the prop tax rate isn't much improved over Hollis.

Hollis remains notably cheaper than towns like Bolton, Harvard, or even Groton/Dunstable.
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:42 PM
 
53 posts, read 15,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
While I tend to agree, these days even the 'value' Worcester county towns like Sterling or Lancaster have higher per sqft costs than a top tier NH town like Hollis or Bedford. In Lancaster's case, the prop tax rate isn't much improved over Hollis.

Hollis remains notably cheaper than towns like Bolton, Harvard, or even Groton/Dunstable.
Sure, if we start going town to town, we'll see the difference. But here's some info I pulled off of redfin.com

Median home prices:
Hillsborough County NH (contains Nashua) - $347,000
Rockingham County (Contains Portsmouth), NH $430,000

Worcester County MA - $337,000
Middlesex County, MA (Contains Lowell) - $590,000
Essex County, MA (Contains Lawrence and Haverhill) - $480,000

Clearly there's a big drop off in prices between Middlesex and Rockingham, so it's understandable why someone may cross the border. However, it should be noted that Worcester County's median home prices are lower than Hillsborough county and many of the locations are roughly the same distance to 128 and Boston as S. New Hampshire.

Factoring in the property taxes, you'll most likely get a better deal in Central Mass. I don't have the time to go town to town, but if you look at the links below, you'll see that the average property tax rate in NH is at roughly the same level as the absolute highest towns in NH

https://joeshimkus.com/NH-Tax-Rates-2019.aspx
https://patch.com/massachusetts/bost...ma-communities
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Old 02-09-2021, 02:58 AM
 
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Wealthy MA residents fleeing to NH would not be phased by $10,000+ property taxes considering the average rent in Boston is over $30,000 a year. Property taxes are high in NH, but they are still a pittance in comparison to the amount of money the average family pays for rent in MA, while yielding incredible returns in terms of living space and resale value.

NH is a great place to be rich in part because it's so hard to be poor in NH. The economic policies favor the rich and keep out the riff-raff. People looking to hide away from the taxman and the pandemic and the peaceful protests can find refuge in NH. Although Florida might be a better place to live with an ample supply of cheap labor, NH remains a better long term investment due to expected sea level rise.

For someone who works for a living at an honest job for a salary, they should live in the state they work in. But now that money is basically fake and considering how many wealthy people exist for totally BS reasons (dogecoin anyone?), wealth leaving MA for NH is a no brainer.
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Old 02-09-2021, 04:42 AM
 
18,675 posts, read 10,527,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDee12345 View Post
I honestly never understood the draw to crossing the border to NH. Sure, the houses are a bit cheaper than that part of Massachusetts, but you make up for the savings in property taxes. Also, so many of the good jobs are in Mass, so you still have to pay Mass income tax. You could just as easily move east of Worcester, get similarly priced houses and get the better social safety net of Mass. Remember, Worcester is roughly the same distance to Boston as Nashua and it has regular train service to town.

Sure, the White Mountains are better for hiking and skiing than the Berkshires, but how often are you going to go there?

Florida, I kinda get, just because the climate is better for so many people. I loathe suburban sprawl down there, but I could happily live in Key West, Miami Beach or some of the other more walkable and interesting areas.
I did tech startups in New Hampshire from 1990 to 2008. We had good success recruiting strong engineers who lived in New Hampshire and worked in Massachusetts. When we sold the first one, I bought a house in Winchester and reverse commuter up I-93. I later moved to Portsmouth NH and had a commute driving down to 495 and then back up to NH. We eventually did one at Pease where I rode a bicycle to work.

Personally, the 5% income tax was lost in the noise. This was before all the tax law changes and the brackets were higher. When you’re in the 36% bracket, the 36% of the 5% state tax is a write off. Now with the lower brackets and the tax law change capping itemized deductions, the math doesn’t work as well.

As I’ve written many times, Massachusetts isn’t a high tax by Northeast Corridor standards. If you’re well into 6 figures, the flat tax is a huge win over graduated income taxes elsewhere in the Northeast. Prop 2 1/2 kept property taxes reasonable compared to most Northeast Corridor locations. The tax burden in the NYC tri state is much bigger. Rhode Island hits dual income professionals pretty hard. The Massachusetts problem is housing costs in towns with good schools commutable to the metro Boston jobs. Down here in the economic wasteland of West Portugal, it’s not like that. A professional can buy a nice house in Mattapoisett or Marion for pennies on the dollar compared to Boston burbs and have a strong school system with the bonus of the salt water access and minimal congestion. It doesn’t help if you want urban but, contrary to the C-D urban bias, most white collar people live in suburbia.
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Old 02-09-2021, 07:35 AM
 
3,268 posts, read 1,925,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDee12345 View Post
Sure, if we start going town to town, we'll see the difference. But here's some info I pulled off of redfin.com

Median home prices:
Hillsborough County NH (contains Nashua) - $347,000
Rockingham County (Contains Portsmouth), NH $430,000

Worcester County MA - $337,000
Middlesex County, MA (Contains Lowell) - $590,000
Essex County, MA (Contains Lawrence and Haverhill) - $480,000

Clearly there's a big drop off in prices between Middlesex and Rockingham, so it's understandable why someone may cross the border. However, it should be noted that Worcester County's median home prices are lower than Hillsborough county and many of the locations are roughly the same distance to 128 and Boston as S. New Hampshire.

Factoring in the property taxes, you'll most likely get a better deal in Central Mass. I don't have the time to go town to town, but if you look at the links below, you'll see that the average property tax rate in NH is at roughly the same level as the absolute highest towns in NH

https://joeshimkus.com/NH-Tax-Rates-2019.aspx
https://patch.com/massachusetts/bost...ma-communities
I 'cherry-picked' towns as that is the only equitable way of evaluating cost. The reality is eastern Worcester county is much more expensive than the total county aggregate, which also includes low desirability higher density cities like Fitchburg and Southbridge, as well as far-flung towns like Warren.

Yes, Hillsborough County also has very rural low cost towns, but these areas are so population sparse they do not drag down the median price when mixed with the higher density Nashua and Manchester 'burbs, towns which represent some of the wealthiest pockets in NH. Even Nashua proper maintains a fairly sizeable middle class population thanks to it's local job market, route 3 access, and mix of nice suburban neighborhoods and walkable downtown; i.e., it ain't Fitchburg nor does it have the dense pockets of poverty Worcester has.

IMO, comparing county median prices is nearly a pointless exercise.
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Old 02-09-2021, 07:39 AM
 
1,810 posts, read 507,813 times
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I agree that if someone is truly rich they are not going to leave MA over taxes. If anything they will just buy an additional home in NH or VT. I've seen it be done recently...by people who arent rich even.

Last edited by msRB311; 02-09-2021 at 07:52 AM..
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