Anyone go through Massave rebate/financing? Boiler needs to be replaced (credit, loan)

[PurpleTwix]

We need to replace our boiler.

Has anyone here taken advantage of Massave rebate and 0% financing?

If so which system/installer did you go through?

[CaseyB]

We got the rebate from Masssave, but didn't finance it.

[MikePRU]

We got the rebate and the HEAT loan. Got the loan from Mass Bay Credit Union. Used a company called Victory Heating & Cooling to do the install. Like a lot of HVAC companies they did all the paperwork for us.

FYI, I believe the boiler needs to be working to be eligible for these incentives.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

FYI, I believe the boiler needs to be working to be eligible for these incentives.

Correct. Massave overviews what does and doesn't qualify for rebates here: https://www.masssave.com/saving/residential-rebates

If an oil boiler, ≥86% AFUE should qualify.
If a gas boiler, ≥90% and ≥95% AFUE should qualify, rebates scaled to efficiency.

There is some fine print, such as furnaces need ECM blower motors and boilers should have an outdoor reset. IMO, there are features any homeowner should want regardless as the upfront cost will be recovered through better efficiency.

[bugelrex]

Do boilers get less reliable as the efficiency increases.

Ie are there specific features/model you don't want because the efficiency vs reliability is not worth it?

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by bugelrex

Do boilers get less reliable as the efficiency increases.

Ie are there specific features/model you don't want because the efficiency vs reliability is not worth it?

Generally speaking, yes. A quality gas mod-con installed professionally should be fairly reliable, but given their complexity and controls, they’re inherently more fault prone than a ‘dumb’ cast iron boiler of yesteryear.

With oil boilers, the market is more or less stuck on non-condensing triple pass cast iron boilers (for good reason). Assuming a quality brand like Buderus or a Biasi-based casting, it should be as reliable as older lower efficiency cast iron units.

IMO, the single best thing you can do to ensure good reliability and efficiency is to hire a good installer. There’s a TON of info out there on HVAC-talk or similar and, if there’s a specific boiler you’d like to target for install, you can call supply houses and see which installers are buying X or Y.

I really wanted a lower mass Biasi triple pass casting for my oil boiler changeout as mine fires an indirect tank year round. My local suppliers pointed me to the a handful of installers and I ended up with an FW Webb design which uses a Biasi casting. No complaints - great boiler.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

IMO, the single best thing you can do to ensure good reliability and efficiency is to hire a good installer. There’s a TON of info out there on HVAC-talk or similar and, if there’s a specific boiler you’d like to target for install, you can call supply houses and see which installers are buying X or Y.

To clarify the "why" here, with newer high efficiency equipment ... whether that be a mod-con (modulating condensing boiler), a lighter weight triple pass cast iron boiler, or VRF heat pumps, etc. ... it is critical that the system be sized correctly in order to hit the manufacturer's efficiency and design life targets.

If, for example, the installer grossly over sizes a boiler it will short cycle undermining the efficiency of the system and placing more stress (via heat cycling) on the components.

Good installers will do heat calcs or, at a minimum, size aggressively knowing the consequences of oversizing.

[sawyer2]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

If, for example, the installer grossly over sizes a boiler it will short cycle undermining the efficiency of the system and placing more stress (via heat cycling) on the components.

Good installers will do heat calcs or, at a minimum, size aggressively knowing the consequences of oversizing.

Agreed. I went through this last year with a family member - quotes from 3 local, supposedly very reputable installers. Sizing still completely out of scale for the needs - changing from an old cast iron to a mod con. + indirect. Looked at me like I had 2 heads when I asked about a manual J.

OP - a few other things to think about re. these new indirect/mod con boilers
- Requires annual maintenance that is more expensive than a typical cast iron
- Meeting the efficiency on the tag is highly dependent on the design and install
- They are more complex to work on so not every heating guy can do so
- Probably won't last as long as an old cast iron (not unusual to get 30+ years form)
- Unless you are really burning through gas inefficiently, the payback number are never great. Of course at some point even the old cast irons need to be replaced.

I'm not saying don't go with indirect/mod con, the higher end ones can be great (such as Lochinvar), but there are considerations.

Whoever does your install make sure it is someone relatively local, established/experienced, good reviews etc. - don't go for the cheapest when it comes to home heating/plumbing, especially for these more complex systems.

The 0% interest loan is a no brainer.

[bugelrex]

Much appreciated, will try to narrow down the brand/model first then a hvac person who installs them.

Do they actually still make the old style cast-iron "reliable" boilers anymore?

[mdovell]

Don't mention cast iron. I might have to replace some of my water lines.

I don't think cast iron is technically bad but modifying it makes it much harder. If I put in another unit (there's a unfinished ADU on my house) I'll have to get additional water lines for it. PVC is pretty simple but drilling cast iron I kinda doubt it.