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Please help my understanding of towns. So it seems like there is one tier that is Newton, Belmont, Westin, Wellesley, etc and would you say the next tier down is Acton, Sudbury, Westwood, Medfield, places like that? Still trying to understand to better understand what would be in our price range.
Go on Zillow/Redfin, enter your home criteria and price range. It will become more clear which areas you can afford. In this market with tight inventory and at that price range, depending on what you want you might not have many choices honestly. If it's in any of the towns on your list, they're all going to have good schools and low crime.
You said you don’t want a place that feels too rural, so I would scratch Sudbury off the list.
Native is a good choice, but I don’t know much about the housing stock and price vs Medfield and Westwood.
I mean, they just visited and narrowed it down to Sudbury, Medfield and Westwood.
Kind of a head scratcher considering OPs original criteria included a desire for a nice town center (presumably that means a Main Street/proper core).
OP, were these three really narrowed down because of “feel”? Or is this a three horse race based on some ranking system, I.e School rankings? Without over stepping my boundaries, it’s hard to reconcile your original criteria with the three towns down selected.
Unless you want privacy, or a big lot, or a sub development, I’m not fully understanding the three towns in focus.
I think the area of Sudbury near Boston Post road has a ton of nice stuff around. Depending on where you are in Sudbury it can be well positioned. Maybe also consider Wayland / Cochituate?
I think you’re being awfully gracious by saying “a ton of nice around”.
That said, Wayland is a great recommendation. You can be in DT Natick or at the Natick mall in minutes. Look and feel will be near identical to Sudbury, ditto schools.
Bedford would be another strong to very strong consideration. Downtown Lexington is beautiful, and Burlington is a 3 iron away. Elite schools, and the main drag in Bedford has slowly become a borderline Main Street. OP, going to toss is a strong rec for Bedford.
I would assume that to be the case in Westwood and Sudbury. High income, high educational attainment lends itself to a more transient population. But while I think they’re transient, they’re sparsely populated without a town center and a lot of connectivity. Moving from an area that is more that way can make towns like Subdury or Westwood feel lonely/cold in my opinion. Simply harder to meet people organically. Over time, it doesn’t matter. You make your friends through the gym or children’s sport or At the park or whatever else it is.
Have you been to Westwood? You seem to be describing a completely different place to the one I live in. It’s hardly “sparsely populated”, especially in the neighborhoods one can buy a house for anywhere under $1m. And it’s definitely not lonely or cold. Most neighborhoods have sidewalks with people walking and biking around. I’ve lived in denser parts of Massachusetts (Belmont, Waltham) and both were considerably less welcoming.
Have you been to Westwood? You seem to be describing a completely different place to the one I live in. It’s hardly “sparsely populated”, especially in the neighborhoods one can buy a house for anywhere under $1m. And it’s definitely not lonely or cold. Most neighborhoods have sidewalks with people walking and biking around. I’ve lived in denser parts of Massachusetts (Belmont, Waltham) and both were considerably less welcoming.
Westwood has a population density of 1.3k per sq. mile. And no core to speak of. Belmont is 5.6K per sq. mile, with a Main Street and direct access to a lot of commercial activity. Two different worlds.
I’d imagine, especially as someone who has lived in both, you would understand why I’d categorize Westwood as sparsely populated.
Other popular towns, with similar proximity to the city.. Melrose at 6k, Wakefield 3.6k, Reading 2.5k, Needham 2.3k, Burlington 2.1k, Lexington 2k. Along route 1, you won’t find a town as sparsely populated as Westwood until Topsfield I’d assume.
So yeah, I think Sudbury, Medfield, and Westwood absolutely fit that description.
^ To build off of the above, these aren’t super active towns. Not by Eastern MA standards, and certainly not by top MSA standards. That’s just a fact. No large popular recreation centers for families, no multiple train stops, no active bar and restaraunt scenes, no public pools built into the neighborhoods, no massive commercial developments with major draw. These aren’t the towns with beer and music festivals or large seasonal parades. These are affluent, sleepier commuter towns. These “amenities” simply don’t exist in small, less dense MA suburbs.
I’m not saying that as a dig. But remember, OP ain’t from here. So it’s important to note that if they’re looking for that type of environment.. They’re hunting for Turkey in a desert based on the towns in focus.
Though I loved living in my small, sprawling 22,000 person MA town.. I moved with precanned relationships, family close by, and I’d already spent a ton of time in the area. I understood where the local watering holes were, what neighboring communities offered, what trails to hike on, where the public beaches were, which neighborhood to target.. We had friends that were part of the country club, other friends that were members at the town pool. It made things very easy. I was able to very much appreciate my 1 acre of land without feeling too distant. I fear for people moving from out of State, without these luxuries, when proper expectations aren’t set.
If I were moving from out of State without extended family or friends, I’d want to be in a town with a lot of amenities and a lot of life. One with cohesiveness that creates natural inclusion. That’s why I’d adamantly recommend an Arlington over a Carlisle, Winchester over Sudbury, Newton over Lincoln. It’s not that Westwood doesn’t offer a GREAT life, but OP needs to understand those differences.
^ To build off of the above, these aren’t super active towns. Not by Eastern MA standards, and certainly not by top MSA standards. That’s just a fact. No large popular recreation centers for families, no multiple train stops, no active bar and restaraunt scenes, no public pools built into the neighborhoods, no massive commercial developments with major draw. These aren’t the towns with beer and music festivals or large seasonal parades. These are affluent, sleepier commuter towns. These “amenities” simply don’t exist in small, less dense MA suburbs.
I’m not saying that as a dig. But remember, OP ain’t from here. So it’s important to note that if they’re looking for that type of environment.. They’re hunting for Turkey in a desert based on the towns in focus.
Though I loved living in my small, sprawling 22,000 person MA town.. I moved with precanned relationships, family close by, and I’d already spent a ton of time in the area. I understood where the local watering holes were, what neighboring communities offered, what trails to hike on, where the public beaches were, which neighborhood to target.. We had friends that were part of the country club, other friends that were members at the town pool. It made things very easy. I was able to very much appreciate my 1 acre of land without feeling too distant. I fear for people moving from out of State, without these luxuries, when proper expectations aren’t set.
If I were moving from out of State without extended family or friends, I’d want to be in a town with a lot of amenities and a lot of life. One with cohesiveness that creates natural inclusion. That’s why I’d adamantly recommend an Arlington over a Carlisle, Winchester over Sudbury, Newton over Lincoln. It’s not that Westwood doesn’t offer a GREAT life, but OP needs to understand those differences.
Again I don't think you really understand Westwood. Most people there are literally down the street from Dedham (quasi city now), University Station, Norwood, etc.. It's not Medfield or Sudbury at all.
Again I don't think you really understand Westwood. Most people there are literally down the street from Dedham (quasi city now), University Station, Norwood, etc.. It's not Medfield or Sudbury at all.
Many people in Sudbury are right down the street from Framingham. It doesn’t change the fact that these are small, low density suburbs with no downtown.
I’m not saying they’re the same place. But they’re certainly playing the same sport.
I would assume that to be the case in Westwood and Sudbury. High income, high educational attainment lends itself to a more transient population. But while I think they’re transient, they’re sparsely populated without a town center and a lot of connectivity. Moving from an area that is more that way can make towns like Subdury or Westwood feel lonely/cold in my opinion. Simply harder to meet people organically. Over time, it doesn’t matter. You make your friends through the gym or children’s sport or At the park or whatever else it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119
Westwood has a population density of 1.3k per sq. mile. And no core to speak of. Belmont is 5.6K per sq. mile, with a Main Street and direct access to a lot of commercial activity. Two different worlds.
I’d imagine, especially as someone who has lived in both, you would understand why I’d categorize Westwood as sparsely populated.
Other popular towns, with similar proximity to the city.. Melrose at 6k, Wakefield 3.6k, Reading 2.5k, Needham 2.3k, Burlington 2.1k, Lexington 2k. Along route 1, you won’t find a town as sparsely populated as Westwood until Topsfield I’d assume.
So yeah, I think Sudbury, Medfield, and Westwood absolutely fit that description.
Have you been to Westwood? You seem to have very strong opinions on it. You seem to be such an expert that you are describing to me, someone who has lived there since 2008, that I am wrong about what the town is like. I'm genuinely curious if this is opinion based on experience or if you've just looked at a few numbers on Wikipedia and have made a judgement.
I mean, it's fine to be a theoretical town advisor, but I would really argue with you on your assessment of what is 'sparse'. Population density of >1k/sq. mi. isn't sparse by my reckoning. Dover, for the record, is a much more sparse town with 510/sq. mi, while Sudbury is about half of Westwood at 740/sq. mi.
I have also questioned your assessment that lower density leads a town to feel lonely or cold. In my experience, how friendly your neighbors are tends to decrease the more densely packed together you are. From direct, lived experience my neighbors in Westwood have been much friendlier than my neighbors in Belmont and Waltham.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119
^ To build off of the above, these aren’t super active towns. Not by Eastern MA standards, and certainly not by top MSA standards. That’s just a fact. No large popular recreation centers for families, no multiple train stops, no active bar and restaraunt scenes, no public pools built into the neighborhoods, no massive commercial developments with major draw. These aren’t the towns with beer and music festivals or large seasonal parades. These are affluent, sleepier commuter towns. These “amenities” simply don’t exist in small, less dense MA suburbs.
I’m not saying that as a dig. But remember, OP ain’t from here. So it’s important to note that if they’re looking for that type of environment.. They’re hunting for Turkey in a desert based on the towns in focus.
Though I loved living in my small, sprawling 22,000 person MA town.. I moved with precanned relationships, family close by, and I’d already spent a ton of time in the area. I understood where the local watering holes were, what neighboring communities offered, what trails to hike on, where the public beaches were, which neighborhood to target.. We had friends that were part of the country club, other friends that were members at the town pool. It made things very easy. I was able to very much appreciate my 1 acre of land without feeling too distant. I fear for people moving from out of State, without these luxuries, when proper expectations aren’t set.
If I were moving from out of State without extended family or friends, I’d want to be in a town with a lot of amenities and a lot of life. One with cohesiveness that creates natural inclusion. That’s why I’d adamantly recommend an Arlington over a Carlisle, Winchester over Sudbury, Newton over Lincoln. It’s not that Westwood doesn’t offer a GREAT life, but OP needs to understand those differences.
Westwood has two train stops in town and a large commercial development (University Station) in town, with another (Legacy Place) right across the town line in Dedham. It doesn't have an active bar or restaurant scene (it was dry until right when I moved here), but like I mentioned before, it's super close to Norwood, which has an active town center with good restaurants and (really townie) bars. Trillium is right across the town line in Canton. The Life is Good Music Festival (at least used to) be right down the road in Canton, too (near the Milton line).
And hey, if they can find the kind of house they're looking for in Winchester or Newton or Arlington or Brookline, more power to them. I think even Westwood is probably at the top of their budget and have recommended Needham as a better, but likely unattainable option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119
Many people in Sudbury are right down the street from Framingham. It doesn’t change the fact that these are small, low density suburbs with no downtown.
I’m not saying they’re the same place. But they’re certainly playing the same sport.
Someone enlighten me.
The minimum lot size in Sudbury is 40000 sq. ft (~1 acre). With a few specific exceptions, every house will be well separated from the neighbors.
There are large section of the town that have enormous lots with big mansions. There are also two parts of town that have at least 4 times that density and are not sparse by any stretch of the imagination. Those are not dense residential areas for this area, but they are a pretty typical suburban neighborhoods for pretty much anywhere else in the country. If the OP is coming from Rice Village or Montrose, sure, Westwood would be a step change in lifestyle, but if they are coming from somewhere like Sugar Land or Kingwood or the Woodlands it probably would not be all that different.
The differences between 1 acre minimum lots and 1/4 acre minimum lots is, in my assessment, enormous. At the 1/4 acre level, you see all your neighbors, neighborhoods generally have sidewalks, and kids can generally go to their friends house on their bikes. Even the lower-density neighborhoods around Buckmaster Pond have good sidewalk coverage and I see lots of kids walking or biking around. It isn't Newton or Arlington, but it's not Sudbury.
With a $800k-$1m budget, the OP will not find houses in the low-density neighborhoods in Westwood. Their budget restricts them to either Islington, which is basically a small town center (that predates Westwood being a separate town) and has a train stop, grocery store, and a few restaurants or their area around the high school.
If the distinction between a 1/4 and 1 acre minimum lots size means nothing to you, that probably explains why you think the two towns indistinguishable. There is a huge difference, in practice, for a family. Especially if you have kids.
Have you been to Westwood? You seem to have very strong opinions on it. You seem to be such an expert that you are describing to me, someone who has lived there since 2008, that I am wrong about what the town is like. I'm genuinely curious if this is opinion based on experience or if you've just looked at a few numbers on Wikipedia and have made a judgement.
I mean, it's fine to be a theoretical town advisor, but I would really argue with you on your assessment of what is 'sparse'. Population density of >1k/sq. mi. isn't sparse by my reckoning. Dover, for the record, is a much more sparse town with 510/sq. mi, while Sudbury is about half of Westwood at 740/sq. mi.
I have also questioned your assessment that lower density leads a town to feel lonely or cold. In my experience, how friendly your neighbors are tends to decrease the more densely packed together you are. From direct, lived experience my neighbors in Westwood have been much friendlier than my neighbors in Belmont and Waltham.
Westwood has two train stops in town and a large commercial development (University Station) in town, with another (Legacy Place) right across the town line in Dedham. It doesn't have an active bar or restaurant scene (it was dry until right when I moved here), but like I mentioned before, it's super close to Norwood, which has an active town center with good restaurants and (really townie) bars. Trillium is right across the town line in Canton. The Life is Good Music Festival (at least used to) be right down the road in Canton, too (near the Milton line).
And hey, if they can find the kind of house they're looking for in Winchester or Newton or Arlington or Brookline, more power to them. I think even Westwood is probably at the top of their budget and have recommended Needham as a better, but likely unattainable option.
The minimum lot size in Sudbury is 40000 sq. ft (~1 acre). With a few specific exceptions, every house will be well separated from the neighbors.
There are large section of the town that have enormous lots with big mansions. There are also two parts of town that have at least 4 times that density and are not sparse by any stretch of the imagination. Those are not dense residential areas for this area, but they are a pretty typical suburban neighborhoods for pretty much anywhere else in the country. If the OP is coming from Rice Village or Montrose, sure, Westwood would be a step change in lifestyle, but if they are coming from somewhere like Sugar Land or Kingwood or the Woodlands it probably would not be all that different.
The differences between 1 acre minimum lots and 1/4 acre minimum lots is, in my assessment, enormous. At the 1/4 acre level, you see all your neighbors, neighborhoods generally have sidewalks, and kids can generally go to their friends house on their bikes. Even the lower-density neighborhoods around Buckmaster Pond have good sidewalk coverage and I see lots of kids walking or biking around. It isn't Newton or Arlington, but it's not Sudbury.
With a $800k-$1m budget, the OP will not find houses in the low-density neighborhoods in Westwood. Their budget restricts them to either Islington, which is basically a small town center (that predates Westwood being a separate town) and has a train stop, grocery store, and a few restaurants or their area around the high school.
If the distinction between a 1/4 and 1 acre minimum lots size means nothing to you, that probably explains why you think the two towns indistinguishable. There is a huge difference, in practice, for a family. Especially if you have kids.
Two things right off the bat- I didn’t realize Westwood has two stops, my apologies. And second, the current zoning/lot restrictions might make a material impact... In the future.
But I think you’re being a bit myopic about this discussion as a whole. University Station is a blip on the map.. It’s a standard strip mall with a Panda Express and a Nordstrom Rack. It’s not an area that would replace a town core. I said the same thing about Lynnfield Market in Lynnfield, even though that’s comparable to Legacy in Dedham.
In the grand scheme of Top 10 MSA suburbia, Westwood is a sleepy commuter town. Without a core. It has centrally located neighborhoods with capes, and splits, and new builds. The rest of the town is built off of a few main roads via side roads and sub developments. People probably prefer it this way, which I totally get. Ditto where I group up in Concord.
But it’s not a walkable, cohesive, energetic family friendly suburb. It’s just not. And using proximity to things that aren’t in the town itself, is a great example of why that’s true. I get that town lines are arbitrary, but if you rely on Canton or Dedham for your social outlet, it’s not really a great sign. You could say the same thing about Medfield, or Subdury.
For the record, 1.3k pop density may not be considered sparsely populated in towns between 95 to 495. But in most metros, it is.
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