Is it possible to escape hunters, ATVs and noise in a rural area? (Canton: dangerous, eat)

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by Tupaloop

Would you say that MA is traditional, too, if not to a lesser degree? Is it really the liberal haven that it's made out to be? Or is MA completely its own thing?

It is both liberal and traditional. People tend to be more conservative in their behavior and dress, even in more urban areas, but that doesn't have a ton of bearing on their political views. For instance, I'm a full blown Antifa-supporting (long before it became the bogeyman of the right), pescatarian, tree-hugging socialist, but that doesn't wear in my lifestyle or behaviors. My background is half refugee and half English Puritan farms, and the two sides influence my gun ownership and support for hunting as part of a sustainable food structure that tracks with my progressive values.



It was my very liberal, red diaper Yiddish Worker's Union family that taught me the value of knowing where your food comes from (hence the belief that one shouldn't eat anything they wouldn't kill and butcher themselves), responsible gun ownership is an important right, and education is the only thing they can't take from you. Those feel like traditional values, but not incongruous with being liberal.

While hunting isn't for me and I really enjoy the calmness of watching deers grazing in the woods, it really can't be understated how overpopulated they are in parts of Massachusetts. It's not good for the deer, either. Shortly before the pandemic, I was driving home in traffic through a heavily populated area when a deer ran out in front of me. I was only going about 15 miles an hour so I was fine, but that may have bee a particularly bad situation for the deer. I tried to follow it into the woods to see if it was OK, and then called animal control. They told me this was becoming increasingly common and that there was nothing they could do. I feel like being hunted after living wild and free in the woods is a better end than getting hit by a car... and the more deer there are in populated areas, the more that will happen. I feel like I'm seeing more on the side of the road these days too, which is deeply upsetting to me.



This same mentality holds true in Vermont as well. The Puritan heritage in New England still runs deep. Massachusetts is also a state that has recently voted in Republican governors despite being a deep blue state.



While your best shot finding liberal communities in rural areas are Massachusetts and Vermont, also consider Tompkins County, NY. Much of upstate and central NY skews a bit to the right, but Tompkins County has Ithaca, several colleges, and lots of rural land populated by people with affiliations to the educational or business environment fostered by the city. Ithaca is a very manageable city with lots of options for medical care as you get older, and since it's a small city with not a ton of traffic, it doesn't take long to get very rural. That helps with college staff and retirees who prefer a more rural environment without giving up amenities. That's not to say you wouldn't still find ATVs or hunting, like anywhere, but it may be another option for you to consider. Ithaca has lots of vegetarian/vegan restaurants and opportunities to meet a like-minded crowd. Cornell is not only an Ivy, but it's an ag school so the city is a nice hub for the types of services extension offices offer. Not knowing comparative real estate costs in the ruraler part of the counties versus western Mass and the Berkshires, I'd guess you could find some comparable costs. Just another option for you to consider.

[mdovell]

There are interesting arguments about the use of animal products. For example up until the early 1990s fur coats were pretty popular. Then I remember all the protests about them and I can't think of any legitimate major chain store that carries for accounts. They're on the other hand is much more acceptable. Now obviously animals have died from both of these products but if we consider the ramifications of using increased amounts of oil for polyester based and acrylic based fibers bad means possibly supporting countries like Saudi Arabia which obviously has a poor human rights record and especially women's rights.

I have a leather jacket that was given to me by my employer and it is about 15 years old. The quality of the leather is excellent and I tried to sell it but no one wanted to buy it. I also have cotton-based but they've worn significantly. I think the cheapness of materials has a much higher detrimental effect on the environment then something you own for the long term. I would also include E-Waste with electronics and packaging. My mother and my aunt used to send the same box back and forth throughout the 80s in the 90s.

The constant obsession with short-cycle lights of materials and the obsession with having everything new all the time is what is a detriment. I will gladly pay more for a higher grade of hamburger from a place like Five Guys then McDonald's, I rather pay more money for a higher grade of shoes than something cheap that's going to fall apart.

I have no issues with hunting technically but if venison somehow became as common as beef or chicken then I would fear for the lives of deers. When we commoditize a product it often goes to the lowest conditions and lowest quality for the fast buck

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

While your best shot finding liberal communities in rural areas are Massachusetts and Vermont, also consider Tompkins County, NY. Much of upstate and central NY skews a bit to the right, but Tompkins County has Ithaca, several colleges, and lots of rural land populated by people with affiliations to the educational or business environment fostered by the city. Ithaca is a very manageable city with lots of options for medical care as you get older, and since it's a small city with not a ton of traffic, it doesn't take long to get very rural. That helps with college staff and retirees who prefer a more rural environment without giving up amenities. That's not to say you wouldn't still find ATVs or hunting, like anywhere, but it may be another option for you to consider. Ithaca has lots of vegetarian/vegan restaurants and opportunities to meet a like-minded crowd. Cornell is not only an Ivy, but it's an ag school so the city is a nice hub for the types of services extension offices offer. Not knowing comparative real estate costs in the ruraler part of the counties versus western Mass and the Berkshires, I'd guess you could find some comparable costs. Just another option for you to consider.

This is a very good suggestion, OP. You might fit in well there, if you look for a property on the outside of town. The cost of real estate isn't nearly as much as it is here. At least it didn't used to be.

[FCMA]

Originally Posted by Tupaloop

Apple Country and OutdoorLover, it's so funny you BOTH found the same house! We love it!

My husband and I are feeling a little more positive, thanks guys! Right now Shelburne, Shelburne Falls and Conway are looking good. There are three state parks in that area that appear to prohibit hunting, plus the Audubon land.

As LOTR fanatics, it would be a huge bonus if we could live on the borders of Buckland.

https://youtu.be/ufFOghMt1yI?t=31

The area up on Patten Hill around High Ledges in Shelburne is about the most heart stoppingly gorgeous area you’ll ever find in non-coastal Massachusetts. Hunting certainly goes on in Shelburne and adjacent Colrain but a spot next to a no-hunting sanctuary or state forest is about the best compromise possible with your criteria. Lots of 2nd perhaps 5th homes up around that part of town too, and those tend not to be the hunter types.

[FCMA]

As an aside on liberal havens, Western MA is probably among the only left-leaning rural areas anywhere (the Blandford-Granville-Russell etc belt in W Hampden County, MA aside). Also, in MA people are liberal but cold and often snobby, have lived here my whole life but still not sure whether that beats conservative but outwardly warm and welcoming. That can certainly be refreshing to visit anyway though that side sure has gone off a disconcerting post-truth deep end. So we’re probably better off with the liberal but rude vibes.

[Amontillado]

Not necessarily snobby. The Yankee ethos is to stay out of your neighbor's business, and hope your neighbor will do the same for you. Good fences and good neighbors, as our local poet said.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

Just a note to the OP, in Northern New England (probably less in MA), public access to private land is a BIG deal. Taking large acreage that was open to hunting for generations and posting it will not go over well, just a FYI. Totally in your rights to do it, but don't get surprised if your neighbors are not stopping by or welcoming you with open arms.

This is also not a left/right issue as you are making it out to be. My town in VT voted 80% for Biden but has been dealing with a large tract of land recently being posted. It's more your upending traditions that have been in place well before you moved to your land/town. Though parts of New England are politically liberal, New England is one of the most traditional places in the country, especially Maine, NH, and VT. Places look like they are from the 1700s for a reason.

It doesn't have anything to do with posting land. The local Vermonters feel they own the state and don't welcome outsiders. Most of the locals post their land. The Fish and Wildlife Dept doesn't want people to post their land, but that's too bad.

[homestead123]

Just to clarify on the Audubon society. They do allow hunting on certain properties. I was a sharp shooter for the Audubon in Westchester county ny for many years. I only had positive relations with the civilians I met in the preserves.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

Not necessarily snobby. The Yankee ethos is to stay out of your neighbor's business, and hope your neighbor will do the same for you. Good fences and good neighbors, as our local poet said.

Well, there is a good amount of snobbishness along with our policy of keeping to ourselves and minding our own business. I went from money snobby Longmeadow to what I called academic snobbery Amherst--the academic snobbery was better, I will say that much. People in the Amherst area often refer to the "arrogant professors"--those who live in ivory towers, don't work very much, brag a lot, and are out of touch with ordinary mortals.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by NYLIER

It doesn't have anything to do with posting land. The local Vermonters feel they own the state and don't welcome outsiders. Most of the locals post their land. The Fish and Wildlife Dept doesn't want people to post their land, but that's too bad.

Outsider status plays a role, but the VT constitution dictates it’s a ‘right to hunt’ state, i.e., private land can be hunted unless posted per the laws. it’s an issue of tradition for some.

But as you state, a combination of out of stater hunters and local riff-raff have caused many locals to post their land ... contrary to the claims of local hunters placing blame on wealthy NY/MA landowners. Some simply have liability concerns ... times change.