Is it possible to escape hunters, ATVs and noise in a rural area? (Barre: income, living in)

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Lampert

I don't think we mean the same thing about what is humane. It has to do with the way animals are killed. How do they suffer most? They suffer most by being killed by a hunter than being thrown into a giant meat grinder. That's why one is a humane way of killing an animal.

No, a 50% chance (male) of guaranteed death through grinding or suffocation is far far far less humane than a low single digit chance of being shot after a life in the wild.

I would MUCH rather be shot and killed unaware than grabbed and suffocated to death. Not even close. The livestock industry is far more cruel than hunting.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by timberline742

So those stupid people that care more about a few bucks than their health made their personal choice. And? So?

They put 10-12 tons of lead in the environment per year
A few years ago Yellowstone started reintroducing golden eagles. The first eagle reintroduced in the park has died of lead poisoning from eating carcasses left by hunters with lead bullets inside.

The lead also leeches into the ground, possibly making way to aquifers.

And so on. It's a problem for the environment. Funny coming from a group that claim to be protector of the environment.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by timberline742

No, a 50% chance (male) of guaranteed death through grinding or suffocation is far far far less humane than a low single digit chance of being shot after a life in the wild.

I would MUCH rather be shot and killed unaware than grabbed and suffocated to death. Not even close.

You are comparing apples and oranges. You have to compare the animals killed, not animals that by chance don't get killed.

That's what humane means when it comes to killing. Not the fact that maybe if you are a wild animals you will not get shot. Otherwise you will agree is much more humane to just make all parks hunting free, that's even more humane, none gets killed.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Lampert

They put 10-12 tons of lead in the environment.
A few years ago Yellowstone started reintroducing golden eagles. The first eagle reintroduced in the park has died of lead poisoning from eating carcasses left by hunters with lead bullets inside.

The lead also leeches into the ground, possibly making way to aquifers.

And so on. It's a problem for the environment. Funny coming from a group that claim to be protector of the environment.

We don't (often) have golden eagles here. They weren't reintroduced there. They have been there (yellowstone). There is also no hunting in yellowstone.

And where did I say I'm ok with lead use? Want to make more things up?

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Lampert

You are comparing apples and oranges. You have to compare the animals killed, not animals that by chance don't get killed.

That's what humane means when it comes to killing. Not the fact that maybe if you are a wild animals you will not get shot. Otherwise you will agree is much more humane to just make all parks hunting free, that's even more humane, none gets killed.

No, that's a disingenuous argument. You're creating self serving definitions and changing the goal posts. Since hunters don't harvest many animals, if you're going to critique and compare hunting to the livestock industry, to compare apples to apples, you have to look at the entire population of both. It's about populations, not individuals.

Even 1 to 1, it's far more humane to be shot and killed not knowing it will happen than suffocated to death, or put in a chute and killed with a bolt gun, or a swine with an electrical probe. If you were going to be killed, which would be worse (less humane), knowing it was going to happen and being dragged or pushed to it? Or never knowing it would ever happen and it just happening? If you say the first thing, that is beyond disingenuous.

If you want to eliminate hunting, fine. Then you have to eliminate all meat eating in all forms. And you'd have to find hundreds of millions of dollars for land management and non game conservation from other sources.

If you cared about conservation you would know hunting and fishing fees and excise taxes are the number one source of money for wildlife conservation in this nation. Something that has been true for a hundred years.

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by gf2020

It's not like hunting seasons in MA are year round, it's literally like a total of 12 weeks, spread across the year.

https://www.mass.gov/media/2083796/download

Honestly, I think you're worrying far too much about something that is fairly easy to avoid.

It's not much different in New Jersey. It's pretty easy to avoid large lakes and wetlands during waterfowl season. There are still places to walk during deer.

I've been in the Pine Barrens many times and don't remember ever hearing a gunshot. If I did it would have been very far away and there was no cause for alarm.

[Tupaloop]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

The OP did nothing of the sort.

Thank you. You are most kind. You might change your mind after this post, but hopefully not.

In my opinion (and keep in mind I've been an animal advocate and very strict vegetarian - 99% vegan - for more than three decades) there is no humane way to snuff the life out of someone that doesn't want to die. No animal going to slaughter wants to lose its life, whether through the Grandin-designed chutes, or the deer browsing in the field. Not one of them goes to their death willingly, it is violently forced upon them.

Without getting too philosophical on you guys, I just want to say that we, as humans, who are gifted with higher consciousness, hold a great deal of power over other beings. It's doubtful that anyone here will dispute that we have greatly abused that power in every way possible. There is looming evidence that the planet cannot sustain our current paradigm for much longer. We need a total shift in how we live and thrive - not just in the way we treat our animal friends, but the very planet itself. Ecocide is real and it is happening.

That's not to say that man is not a fair player in the food chain - there are legit arguments for and against that and I could write a book about all of the arguments (I'll spare you). But in terms of what is considered "humane" (Webster defines this word as "having or showing compassion or benevolence"), there is no such thing as humane killing.

With regard to wild animals possibly consuming unclean water or food, I have read that there is a major contamination problem along many MA waterways, especially in the western part of the state, due to the old mills that dumped waste there. It is definitely worth researching, especially if you get your water from a spring or hunt animals that drink the water. So the meat "harvested" (god I dislike that word when it's used to describe killing animals - they are not corn) may not actually be all that healthy.

Hope that didn't come across preachy. But you guys went there and I couldn't resist chiming in.

[Tupaloop]

Originally Posted by Gerania

It's not much different in New Jersey. It's pretty easy to avoid large lakes and wetlands during waterfowl season. There are still places to walk during deer.

I've been in the Pine Barrens many times and don't remember ever hearing a gunshot. If I did it would have been very far away and there was no cause for alarm.

It's funny you mention this. My husband and I hiked 7 miles in the Pine Barrens today, in a park located within a township that prohibits hunting, and we heard gunshots all day long.

[timberline742]

Using that extreme argument for potentially not being healthy, you better throw in any plants or animals raised for food, including organic produce. Heck, it would include veggies grown in backyard gardens.

[jayrandom]

The short answer is that the OP will not find what they’re looking for anywhere in the world, at least not yet. Veganism a product of 20th century urban culture and does not prevailing anywhere in the world. Even vegetarianism is only dominant in small parts of Asia.

Nowhere in North America is taking animal life forbidden or anywhere close to being banned. Hunting is both popular and legal in all 50 states and one of the major recreational activities in wilderness areas. Conversely, agricultural areas generally have both hunting and animal husbandry.

If the OP really want to get away from any animals being killed, their only near-term solution would be to look for areas so arid as to not support wildlife.