Oklahoma to (likely Western) Massachusetts - Beginning Research (Boston, Worcester: movers, transfer)

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Bro...as the old saying goes, "nothing good happens after midnight". In a city like (much of) Springfield, that can be reliably reworded as "nothing good happens after midnight, or before midnight, or before noon, or afternoon..."...your best chance of coming across legit business is the time of day (varying by street/neighborhood) when the mailman makes his way around. Springfield, MA routinely comes up as one of the most dangerous cities in America. It's a welfare cesspool that's also a major pipeline for drugs and thugs migrating up from NYC (and Waterbury/Bridgeport, CT...). Along with Holy("coke"), it's literally the armpit of the state.

Huh not really.

Most dangerous? Not even close. Not even remotely close. I grew up on the south shore, I have an education (masters, bachelors, associates) multiple certifications etc. I worked in Brockton for a bit. I had some #%@% for that. I moved to springfield (25% increase in pay and better rents). I lived in the downtown for five years. Now I live in quiet corner CT. Here's a few things.

1) My car insurance is literally more in CT than Mass even being in a place now with hardly any crime. CT has more mandatory coverage than Mass and after awhile insurance companies look more at a drivers behavior rather than where you are.

2) The photos you put literally are out of context. Homeless? That's health and human services and the photos were and there's a bus shelter right around the corner. Not everyone waiting for a bus wants to wait in a bus shelter. If the photos were during covid of course they don't want to be by each other

3) There's plenty of crime, drugs and prostitution in the suburbs. You just don't hear about it as much because there's a lack of local media. Mommy blogs and real estate agent run facebook groups have filtered out much of this in the way to prop up property values. I have had very heated debates showing police logs and people on these groups denying they exist. Heck I grew up in what I thought was a nice neighborhood...until I started asking question. My MIT educated neighbor it turns out worked at a factory making cyanide. A quiet neighbor was really quiet because their daughter committed suicide with her fathers police gun (never saw them)

Crime continues to go down. Springfield today is about where Boston was in 2008


Hartford crime rate is 10% higher, murder rate 50% higher (latest stats)

The other part of crime to be frank with you is that most of it is drug related. Unless you do drugs, sell drugs or are in a gang your chances are much lower.

4) Development drove out empty spaces.

New Pope Francis High School
MGM Springfield
Union Station
CRRC Ma rail factory
INSA



5) Consolidation of western mass is going to springfield. Regardless if you like the area or not most of western mass isn't growing, infact it's shinking. Springfield has had some growth and it's certainly growing and in much better shape than hartford. You have a serious foundation problem in CT and central Mass which is limiting the amount of houses on the market

https://portal.ct.gov/DOH/DOH/Progra...ng-Foundations
https://www.wcvb.com/article/is-your...crete/40012159


6) The housing market has gone up...way up. If they didn't really like it why are people paying more than asking price? When the pandemic hit a house was maybe 180K. Now it's 250K in about two years. That's HUGE increase in prices in just two years.
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...ld_MA/overview

"Yeah this place sucks, lets pay 3% above asking" "Yeah let's get out of here the housing values only increased by 33% in the past two years" said no one ever.


So there's a number of factors at play here and frankly having houses that won't crumble, more urban but less prices and an amount of transit all add up.

The reason I moved is frankly the rents kept going up and CT is simply cheaper than mass, even in springfield. I still go in now and then and a fair amount here is owned by people from springfield anyway. CT is pretty much a Mass/NY colony.

I get it maybe you don't like urban areas and minorities and poverty but like any other city things can change. Boston is certainly not what it was in the 1980's, Lowell isn't what it was in the 1990s and springfield isn't what it was in the 2000's. Prices got low, development went in and drove others out.A vape shop was replace by a juice bar, an industial site with a new factory, a parking lot with a casino, a rehab with housing etc

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Huh not really.

Most dangerous? Not even close. Not even remotely close. I grew up on the south shore, I have an education (masters, bachelors, associates) multiple certifications etc. I worked in Brockton for a bit. I had some #%@% for that. I moved to springfield (25% increase in pay and better rents). I lived in the downtown for five years. Now I live in quiet corner CT. Here's a few things.

1) My car insurance is literally more in CT than Mass even being in a place now with hardly any crime. CT has more mandatory coverage than Mass and after awhile insurance companies look more at a drivers behavior rather than where you are.

2) The photos you put literally are out of context. Homeless? That's health and human services and the photos were and there's a bus shelter right around the corner. Not everyone waiting for a bus wants to wait in a bus shelter. If the photos were during covid of course they don't want to be by each other

3) There's plenty of crime, drugs and prostitution in the suburbs. You just don't hear about it as much because there's a lack of local media. Mommy blogs and real estate agent run facebook groups have filtered out much of this in the way to prop up property values. I have had very heated debates showing police logs and people on these groups denying they exist. Heck I grew up in what I thought was a nice neighborhood...until I started asking question. My MIT educated neighbor it turns out worked at a factory making cyanide. A quiet neighbor was really quiet because their daughter committed suicide with her fathers police gun (never saw them)

Crime continues to go down. Springfield today is about where Boston was in 2008


Hartford crime rate is 10% higher, murder rate 50% higher (latest stats)

The other part of crime to be frank with you is that most of it is drug related. Unless you do drugs, sell drugs or are in a gang your chances are much lower.

4) Development drove out empty spaces.

New Pope Francis High School
MGM Springfield
Union Station
CRRC Ma rail factory
INSA



5) Consolidation of western mass is going to springfield. Regardless if you like the area or not most of western mass isn't growing, infact it's shinking. Springfield has had some growth and it's certainly growing and in much better shape than hartford. You have a serious foundation problem in CT and central Mass which is limiting the amount of houses on the market

https://portal.ct.gov/DOH/DOH/Progra...ng-Foundations
https://www.wcvb.com/article/is-your...crete/40012159


6) The housing market has gone up...way up. If they didn't really like it why are people paying more than asking price? When the pandemic hit a house was maybe 180K. Now it's 250K in about two years. That's HUGE increase in prices in just two years.
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...ld_MA/overview

"Yeah this place sucks, lets pay 3% above asking" "Yeah let's get out of here the housing values only increased by 33% in the past two years" said no one ever.


So there's a number of factors at play here and frankly having houses that won't crumble, more urban but less prices and an amount of transit all add up.

The reason I moved is frankly the rents kept going up and CT is simply cheaper than mass, even in springfield. I still go in now and then and a fair amount here is owned by people from springfield anyway. CT is pretty much a Mass/NY colony.

I get it maybe you don't like urban areas and minorities and poverty but like any other city things can change. Boston is certainly not what it was in the 1980's, Lowell isn't what it was in the 1990s and springfield isn't what it was in the 2000's. Prices got low, development went in and drove others out.A vape shop was replace by a juice bar, an industial site with a new factory, a parking lot with a casino, a rehab with housing etc

What exactly is your point? That Hartford is worse? I would never recommend that city either, it also ends up near the top of those bad "lists". Casino or no casino.

[mdovell]

You cannot make a claim of being one of the most dangerous cities without backing it up.

The worst place in the country is east st Louis. Just because it isn't a white picket fence filled with Wasps doesn't mean it's crime ridden.

Years ago when I moved a Cornell grad said not to get shot. Then he came down... No issues. If it was even half as bad as what you say why are there any businesses there? Why is there a convention center and symphony hall?

I'm sorry but you aren't making a logical argument. I think you meant Springfield Missouri, not mass



So yeah it's like #77....

"Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000 residents): 9.5
Chance of being a victim: 1 in 105"

Less than 1%

[WoodwindsRock]

Tulsa is higher on the list than Springfield, MA. Doesn’t surprise me too much - the local news is always reporting incidents in the city.

[mdovell]

If you want to talk about poverty sure I get that. There's a difference though between poverty and crime, otherwise amish country would be riddled with crime. Poverty is much harder to debate than crime but someone being poor doesn't really have that much of an impact on others when there's resources already there. Poverty in suburbs and rural areas is much more hidden from the eye. Generational poverty can be a real thing but there's been some changes. Public housing is a state list, no longer local so if they have to go from Springfield to say...Avon or Brockton to Beverly so be it. I've never been to Tulsa but I would also argue that Mass has some decent revenue sharing programs with towns that allow for more development. The worst place in Mass I would argue is probably Lawrence but that's also because there's much less taxation across in NH and Lowell redeveloped much faster and in ways that Lawrence can't (another UMass branch is impossible).

[tovarisch]

Thanks for continuing to defend Springfield, mdovell. It needs it! I still work there (commute from Northampton) and have never even SEEN a crime.

[aboucher33]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

Thanks for continuing to defend Springfield, mdovell. It needs it! I still work there (commute from Northampton) and have never even SEEN a crime.

Me too. I work downtown and have never felt unsafe or anything at work or walking around. I also go to hockey games and restaurants after hours. Springfield has definitely seen improvement and is better than its reputation.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

Thanks for continuing to defend Springfield, mdovell. It needs it! I still work there (commute from Northampton) and have never even SEEN a crime.

Then move there, if it's so great.

Originally Posted by aboucher33

I work downtown

[bostongymjunkie]

It's always good to point out the positive aspects of a place but if you're finding a continual need to "defend" it, there is usually a reason or few. I don't necessarily think it is as bad as some people portray but it ain't no paradise!

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

It's always good to point out the positive aspects of a place but if you're finding a continual need to "defend" it, there is usually a reason or few. I don't necessarily think it is as bad as some people portray but it ain't no paradise!

I honestly wasn't aware that the crime rate had dropped so much the past couple of years (temporary glitch, or some other trend going on???), although it's still easily the worst city in New England outside of Connecticut. Maybe Holyoke is worse per capita? But to ramble on with "oh well Springfield has a convention center so it must be fine!", or trying to even remotely imply that the suburbs are just as bad they only hide their crime better...come on buddy.