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Old 07-19-2008, 07:35 PM
 
96 posts, read 452,974 times
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I think it's really comes down to the high cost of living in the Boston metro area. The rest of New England, other than western parts of CT, are fairly reasonable.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Metrowest, MA
1,810 posts, read 10,461,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maggiekate View Post
The truth is Boston does have alot to offer: Health care, public Transportaion,
however, to make ends meet, the taxes are real high. The average worker does find it real hard to make end meet. That is why people leave. How many people have the money to live, pay bills, heating and live? The winter is also cold and dreary!
Did you hear... the BIG dig is going to cost $22 billion when adding the interests on loans borrowed on the $15billion project... It takes so much money out of the budget... There is no money for repairs... Turnpike has problem paying loans... There is very little improvement on public transportation... Have you seen Government Center station?
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:17 PM
 
3,075 posts, read 5,622,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator View Post
This is not exactly true. While it is true that population density in New England is somewhat higher than many other states (and thus land is at a greater premium) one of the primary reasons driving up prices in the region is the fact that New Englanders (moreso than people in most other parts of the nation) strongly support very strict zoning laws that limit real estate development, therefore making such development very difficult and expensive. These zoning laws preserve much of the natural beauty and historical character in many areas, but they also impose a regulatory constraint on housing supply and, hence, drive up the price. Many of the leafy 'burbs of Boston have lots of open space and houses on big lots...and astronomical prices tags because land use rules severely limit the supply of additional housing. The state could liberalize zoning rules and open the doors to more housing construction. Prices would fall significantly, but many places would see their physical beauty and charm adversely impacted, and traffic would increase in many communities.

Demand is generally high beaches of reasons others have cited: quality of life, institutions, desirability of the BosWash corridor, proximity to desirable attractions, etc. The bottom line is that despite their high prices and other drawbacks, places like Connecticut and Massachusetts remain, overall, desirable places to live.
I agree with your statement about zoning having a big effect on land costs. That also has to do with the scarcity of buildable land which I mentioned. I was also trying not to get into detail about zoning issues, but you did a great job of explaining it. It doesn't cost much more to actually build a house in New England, but the land costs more...and that is what people are paying for.

If MA had a higher cost of living because of "desirability" than the cost of living should have went down fairly significantly over the last 20 years. We have not had the growth of other areas of the country. The fact is the northeast is hardly attracting people while the southeast and southwest have the fastest growing areas, but also more room and buildable land to grow. MA has been losing jobs and companies because it is expensive to do business here. Many have moved their companies to NH just for cost reasons.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Newton, Mass.
2,954 posts, read 12,266,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
If MA had a higher cost of living because of "desirability" than the cost of living should have went down fairly significantly over the last 20 years. We have not had the growth of other areas of the country. The fact is the northeast is hardly attracting people while the southeast and southwest have the fastest growing area.
This is not true but is not entirely true. Mass. has added some 700,000 people, over a 12% gain, since 1980. Many of those are crammed into Greater Boston as there has not been much population growth in Western Mass. or on the Cape (other than the westernmost towns swelling with commuters). Clearly this is a smaller rate of growth than other states, but it's still more people to put in a small space.

Despite recent (overdue) events, the cost of housing is still high in the Boston area, and I've seen firsthand that, while this is largely due to a lack of supply, that lack of supply has created demand. Many people prefer the aesthetic that results from the zoning laws.

The original question: is Mass. worth the cost of living? To me the answer is clearly yes. Personally I'd pay 5 times more to live inside 128 as opposed to the southeastern or southwestern US. I've been there and for political, cultural, aesthetic reasons I just wouldn't want to live there. I gave it some thought a few years ago, when Mass. was already 3 times more expensive to buy a house, and that still wasn't enough to lure me elsewhere.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod, MA
109 posts, read 404,237 times
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Default Depends on the bank account

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator View Post
These zoning laws preserve much of the natural beauty and historical character in many areas, but they also impose a regulatory constraint on housing supply and, hence, drive up the price. Many of the leafy 'burbs of Boston have lots of open space and houses on big lots...and astronomical prices tags because land use rules severely limit the supply of additional housing. The state could liberalize zoning rules and open the doors to more housing construction. Prices would fall significantly, but many places would see their physical beauty and charm adversely impacted, and traffic would increase in many communities.
So true, Professorsenator!

A bit of a Catch-22, yes? These soaring costs are why I wish I were in a

position to leave here for some place like Texas or Arizona with big skies and

lots of rolling, pristine land. However, prices there, though not at all

comparable, are fast rising, because many who think like I do have been

moving there in droves. I have to say, Massachusetts has a lot going for it,

and I'm more appreciative of these things than I was a couple of years ago

when I was in a different state of mind. A bout with a severe health

condition this past year has made me realize that, as far as health care and

life style is concerned, there are a lot of worse places where one could live

in the US.

Is it worth the high cost of living?

I guess if you value the unique things and enlightened politics that

Massachusetts has to offer and have a great paying job, it may be worth it.

If you don't, and health is not a huge concern, life could be a lot easier

elsewhere.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Beautiful New England
2,412 posts, read 7,157,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farouche View Post
If you don't, and health is not a huge concern, life could be a lot easier elsewhere.
Yes, and this is one of the ramifications of the high costs of living. Tight zoning laws raise housing costs. They also preserve scenery, character, and history. Loosen the building codes on the Cape, for example, a there would be a zillion waterfront condos and traffic would be an even bigger nightmare. Housing prices would fall but the Cape would lose its desirability.

As prices rise, fewer people are able to afford the attractions that Mass. has to offer. Those with higher incomes, however, are still able to enjoy the benefits of living in the Bay State. Thus, just as an exclusive club may exclude poor folks as members to maintain a certain ambiance for those who belong, wealthier individuals in Mass. have an interest in keeping housing costs high to preserve a high quality of life that is available to a limited number.

Is the cost of living worth it? Yes, if you can afford to live in a desirable area. If you can't, then Mass. can be a tough place to be.

As for the weather: I don't find the seasons a problem. Most of the Midwest and plains West has worse winters; Mass. is mild in comparison to a lot of states. My only complaint about winter is that it lasts about one month too long, and spring arrives about one month too late. Other than that, this non-native New Englander thinks the weather's quite good.
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Amherst
123 posts, read 472,458 times
Reputation: 56
A Harvard white paper from 2004 calculated the zoning and legal costs (environmental laws, local regulations, and so on) of building homes in the Boston area, and concluded that 40% of housing costs were directly or indirectly caused by this legal overhead. Having handled some zoning and wetlands protection appeals for developers in the area that numbers sounds about right.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,428 posts, read 6,483,815 times
Reputation: 1721
To me it all about my friends,family,culture, and my home coast.

I'm stuck in N. NJ right now and have lived in the D.C. metro area as well. And while these places are nice enough, they are not home to me, and never could be. My home is the south shore of MA. Most of my family and good friends are there, My culture is there, and my home coastline is there (which is important to me.)
So I guess these are the things that make the high COL of MA. worth it to me.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:07 PM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,459,649 times
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The real expense is living inside 128, any larger metro area is going to be expensive. I'm not a big fan of anything outside 128 and I believe housing sentiments are on my side.

So I guess the desirable parts of MA, for me, are not worth the COL since I moved to San Diego a year ago. I'm paying about the same I would have paid living in Boston(though I live alone which I wouldn't be able to do in Boston) and I feel like a get more bang for my buck. This might also be due to the fact that I lived in Boston for 22 years and was looking for something different though I also would have probably ended up working outside the 128 belt since that's where a lot of tech positions are located and I wasn't looking for that at all.

I'd say part of the reason the Boston area specifically is so expensive is due to zoning laws and due to the Universities in the area.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:16 PM
 
646 posts, read 2,661,199 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyguy View Post
Real estate gets only more expensive because "they're not making any more land."
Where, until the 1950's, were the "vegetable baskets of the Northeast" located? Answer: Long Island and New Jersey. Where are they now? ."
Same place's ,yup New Jersey is the top exporter(grown right in the Garden state) of fresh veggies on the East coast,Fla has more fruits(lol)
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