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Old 06-09-2012, 11:10 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,421,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirk98 View Post
First, a little background.

I moved to Lawrence in the late 80s. I attended the Frost School and then moved on to Lawrence High School in the mid '90s.

This covers the period when Lawrence was in the news for the highest arson and highest per-capita auto theft rate in the nation (at least that is what my family was told). I am of the Caucasian persuasion--ie, a minority in this city of minorities.

Actually, second-highest for car theft. Newark NJ took the cake back when I lived in neighboring town(s).

When my family moved to Lawrence (from Lowell), they chose a spot in South Lawrence, on the Andover line (Mt Vernon area). My family, while not on welfare, was definitely far from "middle income".


Mt Vernon is probably close to the best place to live in Lawrence. I had a good friend that lived there. (though I read a few years ago that they renovated some of the mill buildings along the Merrimack, some of them very high-end. It has been a long time since I was in MA, so my info may be dated.

I wont lie. Growing up in Lawrence was hard. In the old LHS, I recall my first day, noting the bullet holes in the windows and being scared out of my mind. But something very interesting happened there.

You see, Lawrence has its share of naysayers. And much of the negative hype, predominantly from folks that have never lived in the city, is not without some degree of merit. What you dont hear on this thread, or much anywhere else, is how many dedicated people there are desperately trying to make a difference in Lawrence.

The statistics don't lie... Look at the ranking of the Lawrence schools compared to all others in the state. Lawrence ranked 311 out of 354 high schools in the state of MA. That is in the bottom 12% in the state. There may be a lot of dedicated people trying to make a difference, but the proof is in the pudding, and they are failing miserably. I HATE to be a naysayer, but I have to also state the truth.
Fortunately, I moved far away from there quite some time ago.

In my case, this took the form of certain teachers and guidance counselors taking a strong interest in me, guiding and protecting me--especially from myself.

Sample size of one only proves existence.

In the end, I survived "this cesspool"--or whatever the previous poster called the city. I ended up attending what was then ranked as the 5th best college in our nation. I now work in finance and am definitely what many would consider "middle" or perhaps even "upper middle" income. My guidance counselor from LHS attended my wedding.

I wont sit here and say that living in Lawrence is the "right move" for any one person, but I wont damn the whole city. I havent lived there since the late 90s, but I have many friends who chose to move back there and raise families. Like any town, there are shady areas (back in the day, it was downtown area) and nicer areas (Mt Vernon, etc).

Insofar as schools go, back then, the Frost School was EXCELLENT (and it sounds like it still is, based on the quote above)... I heard that the Wetherbee was good, as well.

The high school, back then, left a lot to be desired.

And the relatively-new high school has been taken into receivership. THAT sounds like a good place to go. Total cost: $110M. Thank the MA taxpayers. I rejoice that I moved to a place where there is no taxation, the schools are the finest in the world, and we don't have to deal with Lawrencian cronyism. Just my opinion.

Like so many things in life, you get out what you give. I made an effort to study and keep my nose (relatively) clean. I had a core support group in the high school, and that allowed me to graduate in the top 10 of the class, absolutely clean house on cash scholarships at graduation (did you know that Robert Frost and his wife were co-valedictorians from LHS?), and get in to a college that I might not have had a chance of had I gone to a more competitive high school.

Hmmm.... geez... there tends to be a strong correlation between the schools that you went to in the high-school years, and what college/univeristy will take you. Go to one of these?: http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegerankings/tp/Top-Universities.htm

Or one of these?: http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegerankings/tp/best-universities-more.htm

Sorry this is so long-winded. I just read 8 pages dedicated to a simple question and the thread turned, as anything about Lawrence often does, to a bunch of "Law-town" bashing, with a few positive notes. I have said my piece on this...

This is NOT about Law-bashing. Back in the late '70's (see, it has been a while since I was there), there was a greasy spoon called 'Mrs and Me'. If I recall correctly, didn't open until 11PM. Best in the world. Then Lawton's, which has been there forever, and is great. Then Sharkey's, a car repair shop that would let your car pass inspection if you bought them lunch, then Tripoli Bakery,,, ahhh, then the chop shops where you could get parts for cheap (oops, sorry, let's not talk about them), then on the main drag, Cherry & Webb, Sutton's, Woolworth's, Daniel Shoe store, etc. Don't know if they even exist any more there... it's been a really long time. Kaps clothing, King's Subs.... I could make a list a mile long (as long as my distant memory holds out). Feast of 3 Saints on Common Street.... geez.

My total point is, there are positive aspects of Lawrence, and negative aspects, as is true with any city. It is just my personal opinion that the latter dominates.

To the OP...

One other person asked the salient question. To answer you properly, we would need to know what you are looking for? Are you actively seeking a large hispanic community? Do you have children? Are you looking for a true City (warts and all) within an hour (think its 45 mins) to Boston? 30 mins to the beach? 2 hrs to the mountains of NH? Perhaps Lawrence is right for you.

Your actual questions about crime and safety: I lived there quite some time ago. In Mt Vernon area, I never had a problem with car being broken in to or vandalized. Parked near the old LHS, car was broken in to once. North Lawrence (which also had nice parts!) seemed 'rougher' than South Lawrence (which had some 'rough' parts, too)

Like I said, I have friends who went to college, then moved back to start a family.
It all depends on what you want and what you make of it.
Mine in green.

BTW, Robert Goulet and Sully Erna also came from Lawrence, but that still doesn't make it better.

Last edited by SuperSparkle928; 06-09-2012 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,637 posts, read 28,446,887 times
Reputation: 50443
I was just in Lawrence and there's this GOOD place to EAT called the Union St Grill. It's in a renovated mill building. There are also antique shops and several businesses. I highly recommend this place to eat though--for breakfast or lunch or mid afternoon when I was there. There are smoothies and shakes, REAL lemonade, great sandwiches, etc. The a/c was COOL and the atmosphere was pleasant and relaxing.

I think Lawrence is the pits but if you have to go there, this is a good place to eat.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:45 AM
 
1 posts, read 4,566 times
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Wow
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: New England
242 posts, read 349,279 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Go down Park St and tell me how good the city is. That is where they would have a little kid ride out on a bicycle in front of your car, you would stop, and then they would rob you. Remember the riots near Treat Hardware, when they were throwing Molotov cocktails? I only lived in two neighboring towns from when I was 6 to when I was 30, so don't listen to me.
At least it is no longer the 2nd-highest car-theft rate (per capita) city in the country. And there are one or two worse cities in MA.
Just my (factual) humble opinion.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but my experience with Lawrence was just fine. I grew up in Andover and during college and summers I worked as a delivery driver based in South Lawrence and I went to all parts of the city including many of the liquor stores along and near Park St and I never had a single problem with anyone in Lawrence. Many of my friends had the same opinion of Lawrence that you have, but I can only judge based on my own experiences there and they were all positive.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:20 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,421,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaIceman View Post
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but my experience with Lawrence was just fine.

A sample size of one just demonstrates existence. I was not stating an opinion, but hard-core facts. Search the web, and learn reality.

I grew up in Andover and during college and summers I worked as a delivery driver based in South Lawrence and I went to all parts of the city including many of the liquor stores along and near Park St and I never had a single problem with anyone in Lawrence.

Again, sample size of one. Statistically insignificant. During summers I worked at Malden Mills (the old one, not the rebuilt one). I too grew up in Andover, and learned at a young age the areas of Lawrence to avoid (i.e. most of it). Learned that the Lawrence/Methuen border on Rt 28 was not the place to go. Been a long time since I visited, though it is unlikely I wll ever get anywhere near that city again. Good friend of mine is a police officer there, and he basically said "Don't go there".
How many times did they throw Molotov cocktails in Andover? How many houses in Andover did they, in triple-deckers (well, I don't remember if there were any) raised chickens in the rear stairwells?

Many of my friends had the same opinion of Lawrence that you have, but I can only judge based on my own experiences there and they were all positive.

Third time stated, your sample size of one, yourself. If many of your friends have the same observations that I had when I lived in New England, then perhaps you are the exception rather than the rule. JMHO.
Statistics, properly taken and analyzed, demonstrate the trend. I just state facts. Do a web search.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:03 AM
 
Location: New England
242 posts, read 349,279 times
Reputation: 339
I'm sorry, I must have missed where you stated any facts. All I'm seeing is your opinion, which is fine. You have your opinion and I'm not going to change it, and I have my opinion and you're not going to change it either. I can respect that others have different opinions from mine and I just wanted to point out that different opinions than yours do exist re: Lawrence.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:47 PM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,421,661 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaIceman View Post
I'm sorry, I must have missed where you stated any facts. All I'm seeing is your opinion, which is fine. You have your opinion and I'm not going to change it, and I have my opinion and you're not going to change it either. I can respect that others have different opinions from mine and I just wanted to point out that different opinions than yours do exist re: Lawrence.
I cannot post links to reputable sites stating things such as crime rates, quality of schools, ethnicity distribution on C-D, as it essentially is competition, and it will get flagged. Been there, done that. All I will say is that the crime rate for Lawrence is in the 10% worst rate in the entire state. The reason why I said do a web search, is that there is a thing called 'Google', that will confirm the facts, not my opinion (which is based on fact). Learn how to use it. Also, having lived in two neighboring towns to Lawrence from when I was six until my early 30's, and reading the Lawrence Eagle Tribune every day, and being on Grand Jury for three months and watching all the Lawrencians parade through.... also knowing police officers that work there... there is more than enough evidence for me to state my 'opinion' as fact. Car theft rate was awesomely high.

I can state a few more of my 'opinions'..... I think the world is not flat, the moon is not made out of green cheese, and the sun doesn't orbit around the earth. But just my opinions. I could be wrong.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:12 AM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,740,728 times
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"there tends to be a strong correlation between the schools that you went to in the high-school years, and what college/univeristy will take you. Go to one of these?: http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegerankings/tp/Top-Universities.htm"

Kinda misleading and a bit of a half truth.

Private schools generally have lower standards than public. In a private high school the teachers are often paid less than public schools. Religious schools have lower standards for teachers, I know this because I have talked to them. They don't have to teach the MCAS and teachers don't have to pass any MTEL's. From an employer standpoint this just looks like a easy way around things and thus they don't value the place.

What gets people into colleges and universities is being able to pay and the grades. So in an economic downturn how do you fill the classroom. Public colleges/universities are subsidized by the states, private schools aren't. So if they cannot lower prices the only thing they can do is lower standards. Ivy league school standards have dropped dramatically in the past 20 years. Significant endowment funds have increased this process.

Besides all it takes is for someone to go to a two year community school/college and then transfer to a four year. Few ask if someone really spent all four years at a school. That's like asking if someone stayed at a dorm (which is dying off as a concept anyway).

A bachelors degree these days is what a high school diploma was in the 50's and 60's. It's a default standard. If you are in debt you are less likely to get a job than without. Companies are now starting to do credit checks. So if you owe money you probably cannot get anything that deals with funds or physical cash and that shuts out quit a bit of jobs. Forget about working in finance if you are in debt.

Yes of course some then argue that it isn't so much about how much you make but the networking. Ok fine...but Bill Gates is Harvard drop out..then again he was born in a millionare family didn't really have to work to start with. Then again Zuckerberg dropped out and he had the worst IPO in US history costing banks millions if not billions in potential losses. Al Gore went to an Ivy league school (huge winner there eh) etc. It's a much harder sell to suggest that Ivy league impresses people these days than before. In a poll only 3% stated that ivy league makes people better workers Fannie Mae Loans, Conforming Mortgage $729,750 to $625,500, Conforming Jumbo Mortgage

The access to information these days is so much higher that professors might not really even need the college or university to teach!
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:28 PM
 
31 posts, read 72,862 times
Reputation: 32
Listen here,

I grew up in smaller upper middle class towns outside of Boston. When I started college, I moved to Lowell and it was a shell shock at first but I found the immigrant population of Lowell to be awesome. Growing up in the aforementioned small towns outside of Boston, I heard nothing but terrible things about Lowell and Lawrence growing up. I was terrified when I moved to Lowell. None of my friends would visit me.

Now, I love Lowell. I'm planning on moving back there in 3-4 months when I buy a house. Diversity is important, but not when it turns into Lawrence.

My first experience with anyone from Lawrence was in 2002. I got a job at a supermarket while I was in college and was training with two hispanic girls who just moved to Lowell from Lawrence. All they did the entire time was talk about how much they hated white people and how we're all terrible and it's our fault Lawrence sucked....it was very weird.

I moved to Lawrence 5 years ago to move in with my now wife. One night I called the cops because I had a massive fight at the corner of my street and I didn't want anyone to get shot, so they cops came. I fell asleep, and woke up an hour later hearing someone get shot at the corner of the street. I hear gunshots at least once or twice a week. 4 houses ON MY street have burned down since I moved in. I've called the cops 4 times for abandoned stolen cars in the area. You can't go downtown without being harassed. You see drug deals and prostitutes on corners on a regular basis.

Lawrence is a disgusting place to live. The schools are in receivership, a lot of the people (not just the hispanic people like some here are saying, but the white people as well) seem to embrace the situation they're in and milk the system. Our mayor and police chief are in a constant war, the mayor is corrrupt and abuses the system too and nobody really seems to be fixiing it at all.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:40 AM
 
18,622 posts, read 33,192,920 times
Reputation: 36922
The social stats for Lawrence are among the worst in the state- teen pregnancy, welfare, school dropouts, etc. You can tell a lot about an area by these stats.
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