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From my experience having grown up in a suburban neighborhood with very little in the way of stores, entertainment, or the local library anywhere within reasonable walking distance, I'd say that as long as there are other children around, kids have a way of finding ways to spend their time no matter the setting. On the other hand, if the house is in an isolated spot along a country road, activities for the children might be an issue, although in this age of "play dates" the number of kids right in the neighborhood might be a somewhat moot consideration. The "play date" thing then brings this back around to the question you'll need to consider about how ready you are to get into a driving-oriented way of life.
OK, time for some more ranting. I've been meaning to come back to this one but there are simply not enough hours during the day.
In all honesty, if I could explicitly shop for neighbors and actually DESCRIBE the kind of families I am looking to have around - without coming across like a freak, of course - then I would. At this point I would care about this criterion even more than I care about schools or updated kitchens. Too bad we cannot give our real estate agent a "neighbor profile". When I asked "are there small children in the neighborhood?" I was told by an agent that they cannot discuss this topic. Waow.
The proverbial pedophile always lurking in the dark, I know. So I dropped it.
I thought my kids were at that beautiful, perfectly innocent age when schools should not yet matter. What SHOULD matter is the wonder, magic and happiness that comes from free, unstructured, spontaneous interaction with neighborhood kids. The kind of kids whose families still believe that stepping outside of the house is worth it because it might just result in spying another child eager to find a playmate - and heck, neighbor moms or whoever supervises might actually get to...gasp!... talk while the kids play. Whhheeeew, what a concept!
Even for small children, playing outside with another kid supervised by adults is much better than just walking outside with an adult.
I've learned the hard way that after 3 children need other children: and NOT the sibling (the eternal, taken-for-granted rival) and NOT always in organized, structured, goal-oriented ways.
Parents can only supply so much magic. Moms, be they "stay-at-home", cannot be EVERYTHING to a child, including the most entertaining playmate ever. And schools and organized activities cannot take care of the fundamental need to learn how to build a relationship in a natural, free, spontaneous way (a skill which the modern child clearly lacks, almost completely, in my opinion).
But wait, I am living in the 21st century where such expectations usually draw either condescending smiles or some fluffy explanation as to why it is ridiculous for me to expect spontaneous play among neighborhood kids. The pedophile, the organized activity meant to funnel the darling into Harvard, the play-date set up precisely between 4:00-5:00pm, 3 months in advance with the understanding that at 5:00pm your behind better leave the premise, etc.
Years after year I kept hearing that...well, kids still play...in some neighborhoods...somewhere...I may be located in the wrong part of town...not a child-friendly area, etc. So I was always keeping an eye for those neighborhoods I was just not lucky enough to be in. Guess what?
There IS no such thing. North or South, urban or suburban, big town, small town - CHILDREN ARE GONE. They're nowhere to be seen playing freely - absolutely nowhere. They are in school, in an organized activity, an organized play date, or in front of the TV or a video-game. Period.
If they are in the park, they are closely followed by a parent at all times, a parent who actually encourages the child to keep to himself, while discouraging any attempt to get close to another kid, equally well guarded by the parent. When in the park, they all seem to play either with the parent or in their own bubble, despite ample presence of other children around. This is one of the freakiest and saddest things I have witnessed in these "modern" times we are all being "blessed" with nowadays.
We are currently transient residents of an Alabama small town - a place that is supposed to be the epitome of a slow-paced, old fashioned way of life, and a "rat-race-less" mindset. When we rented out our townhouse in Atlanta we had to take our 4yo out of the 3 days a week / 9-12pm preschool and just let him stay at home until we move to Mass.
As we are an (almost) no TV household (husband still uses it but only when kids are in bed), the kids want to be outside ...but they also want me to play with them and make "fun" for them every step of the way - which I am simply not capable of at all times. I do some of that but I cannot do it continuously. I simply don't have the energy and my "magic" has "dried up" a little bit, frankly speaking. Sometimes I can see it in their eyes that they yearn for other creatures their age and size but the darn small town is dead and you would not be able to see a child around to save your life (not that you would want to if you were doomed to live in such a place long term ).
I have prayed many times that maybe now, with this move to Mass, we will somehow end up in a truly family-oriented neighborhood where the kids could make some reasonably stable relationships with some neighborhood children. Wish us good luck with that because we might need a lot!
This was the only choice left as the other two fell through as owners decided they could rent their places for more. The only trouble is that when time comes for buying, only the good fairy or a lottery win (or both) would make it possible for us to stay in Bedford.
Thank you a million again for all the support and great information we have received on this forum! It is a great, great board with lots of great, great people!
syracusa, you'll have enough material in all these threads for a fascinating memoir. If only the kids would play outside you might have the time to put it together! Seriously, I'm sad to think children don't get to play spontaneously any more. But it seems to be true, more or less.
OK, we changed to Lynnfield. That was our original first choice given many criteria met, but the owner had found a higher paying tenant, then the arrangement went under, so we got it.
Only to hear that in Lynnfield no children EVER play outside and nobody EVER talks. A poster sent me a private e-mail sounding less than enthusiastic about the place, all while leaving the impression that we just chose a snooty, cold place to live; and I don't mean cold due to winters.
Darn it!! If anyone cares to comment about this, we are interested.
In your posts you adamantly conveyed that children did not play outside anywhere and spontaneous gatherings are non existent.
I know that while it is hardly the norm, it does happen and have lived a life where my kids enjoyed spontaneous play in our backyard, evenings of ordering pizzas to feed the masses in our pool and have shown up to school to pick up my two kids, only to have to wait while they finish a football game (and we moms congregated and chatted) they started on the lawn of the school. The game never ended and I usually went home with at least a couple extra kids for the afternoon. All spontaneous, all outside and all child initiated.
For every story like mine, there are as many negative stories out there. I've heard them and often wondered if I was living in the same community (or state in the case of what I read on CD).
Look at this rationally. Throw out the Pollyanna glowing reviews and throw out the totally negative ones and take what's in the middle. That will give you a more realistic idea of what to expect. A person's experience in any given community can only be as positive as that person.
Great post, Beachcomber. Wise advice about giving more weight to balanced opinions in the middle than to the extremes.
What I know about Lynnfield is the general physical appearance of the town. I really know pretty much nothing based on personal experience about Lynnfield's personality. For what it's worth, I've never heard anything about any particular reputation for snootiness, while there are other towns in the Boston area I have often heard are supposed to be snooty places.
It occurs to me that one possible reason you may have heard about snootiness in Lynnfield could be that people just tend to assume this about affluent suburbs. My guess is that you can apply Beachcombers advice about largely disregarding the extreme opinions to concerns about snootiness. Lynnfield is a nice clean town, and I believe you said that it has the best walking character of the three towns you had narrowed your choices to. It sounds like a town you will be able to make into a nice place for you.
I love Lynnfield, if I was going to move to one of the high performing school district type of neighborhoods, I would definitely choose Lynnfield. It is a nice town, with a lot of charm (and some beautiful parks) and it lacks the snootiness of some other suburbs.
You can always drive over Wakefield if you are looking for more walkability.
Congrats!
Beantown_Mama, I got a little laugh out of the suggestion to drive somewhere for walkability. I know what you're saying, I think, meaning that you're talking about being able to walk around to a bunch of stores once you arrive in a commercial center, but it struck me as kind of humorous.
Syracusa, hope you'll update us on how things go as you settle in. Best of luck with the move. Take care.
Syracusa, have been following your saga on where to live and since you have been looking for opinions here's my take- First, the 60's house you are looking at in Lynnfield might not be deleaded if that is a problem for you, you may want to check that. You may need a newer house or one that has been gutted and rehabbed to avoid the lead paint issue. I believe in Ma, a house or apt that has lead paint cannot be rented to anyone with children under 6.
Second, you are not buying and therefore you are not committed to any one town. You sign a one year lease you are only committed for one year. During that year you can take your time and go take a look around other communities to see what fits with your criteria. Best time to look around, late spring, summer and early fall, take a ride around neighborhoods, towns and see what they have to offer, see if there are kids outside playing, look at how active the parks are, go into the town halls and ask about community activities.
You can always move after the first year if unhappy with your location. If a town offers a lot of community activities, it would offer more in the way of meeting people, having playmates for your children etc. this is very hard to know doing it long distance. During the Winter, people tend to hibernate so not a great time to make any judgement about any town. Many of the "rich" towns empty out- people are up North skiing or down south enjoying the sun. Not sure with this economy if that is still the case.
I looked in Lynnfield prior to buying and my take on it is this- nice town, very pretty, nice homes, mid to upper class, however sleepy bedroom community, no center to speak of, no shopping in town, that I know of. Seems as though you need to leave town to do anything- dining, shopping, etc. Walkability would be around the neighborhood as there is no real center. If this house is on a Main Street, there would be no neighborhood to walk around. So your walkability criteria would be questionable in a town like Lynnfield. I also envision it as a town where moms pack up their kids and drive out of town for activities. I could be wrong its just how it appears to be.
I am surprised that you limited your choices to the 3 towns that you did. Other towns such as Danvers, Lexington, Beverly, Marblehead, Wakefield, Melrose would have alot more to offer a newcomer.
All have centers and downtown walkable areas, stores, eating establishments, parks. Beverly and Marblehead on the water with beaches, an added plus in the summer.
Many of these towns offer alot of community activities through their park and rec programs or just through the town, many have YMCA's, library programs, great way to meet other moms and playmates for your kids.
All are within 20-25 minutes to Reading, where I believe, you need to be close to ?
Housing stock is older in general in New England but there are some newer homes and there have been lots of rehabs done in the last few years, you may be able to rent something newer if the owner has been trying to sell and unable to. If you have not made up your mind, put out a feeler for these towns through the broker you are working with. These towns would seem to have more to offer you.
If you want more city like feel- look into Salem for now, schools are questionable for later, but Salem is the new up and coming small city with lots of professionals moving in, lots of restaurants, cafes, ethnic restaurants, they just built some great loft apartments in the center. Very walkable city, has train and boat transportation to Boston, has alot of community activity going on, has a nice museum, historical,
nice park, not all areas good, but there are some decent areas. Located between Beverly(also a small city) and Marblehead ( a town), also think they have swimming area in Forest Park and Salem Willows, though not great, decent for a hot summer day. Hope that helps. Good luck with your move.
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No specific to Lynnfield
