Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Glad you enjoyed your short visit Infidel. There is much going on here and more to come. I think one of the keys to better success is tying all these pockets together. If you take the true essence of the city (downtown - midtown up to highland), and have enough attractions in place, then things take shape. Even in Chicago (one of my all time favorite cities), everything is connected. You can walk for miles and miles and find a great mixture of residential, shopping, dining and more. As you continue to move in various directions, the heritage changes from one section to the next. The downtown is business and grand shopping along with beaches and one huge lake, and the 'burbs are away and a nice drive out.
Once we find a way to connect downtown east to midtown to cooper young/overton square to poplar plaza, while it's not a walking destination, it's bikeable and of course driveable. But it gives you that feeling of other well designed cities. Poplar being the common denominator. The other areas mentioned like Whitehaven near Graceland etc, also need to fit in and become viable.
I know I'm rambling here, but I see progress even if it's years out. Here's hoping for better things ahead.
I really don't think the locus of Memphis' difficulties is found in methods of 'transportation' or in land mass/sprawl . The obstacles for Memphis' competitiveness seem to rest in far more fundamental underpinnings - as in 'culture', 'attitudes', educational level, and functional politics for the common good.
One poster really echoes my opinion as a transplant. There is, no doubt, a 'love it or leave it' mentality and attitude. This limited view serves to keep Memphis right where it is : BEHIND. In fact, newcomers and especially professional newcomers are truly expected to leave their standards, expectations, lifestyles, and even 'politics' in the cites from where they moved. My wife and I have never experienced such parochialism in our lives- and we, too, are Southerners, but have experienced 'life' elsewhere. It seems that there is an automatic resentment of people that choose to accept positions in Memphis- then, there seems to be the required acceptance of the edict of 'love Memphis or leave it'.
Observation: Someone stated that Memphis TN is 'charming'.
My wife and I both read that comment and laughed out loud. 'Charming' would be the last adjective that comes to our minds it seems. Charleston, SC seems 'charming' to us. Martha's Vineyard also seems 'charming'. A case could be made for cities like Ashville NC perhaps, or several towns in NOVA, or St. Augustine, FL, or Hyannisport. If Memphis were so 'charming', the growth and planning would be self evident it seems to me. Additionally, its residents would be 'charmed' in to not fleeing the city and the region in the thousands.
When my wife and I think of 'charming', Memphis is not a city that comes immediately to mind. This is not an appropriate assessment of this sort of city, sorry to say.
It further seems telling that my comments hit a raw nerve, which is revealing in an important way. The retorts seem torturously and needlessly defensive. Therein lies the crux of many other problems that apparently are deep-seated.
Memphis is certainly a 'sick' patient, but it's not on its deathbed. I fear that perhaps the recovery time is far too lengthy for many people who may be considering a move to Memphis.
Some 'patients' are not aware of their 'sickness', until after a complete examination. Other 'patients' may be in denial, or simply refuse to follow directions, and faithfully take their 'medications'. Still, others become combative, and won't even believe a second 'opinion' or a third 'opinion'. Invariably, the 'patient' becomes much worse - and in some case, the 'patient' dies - either quickly, or in a slow march to his demise. In many cases, the 'patient' takes no corrective action, no 'lifestyle change', then attempts to fool others that he is in good 'health' .
Not only that, but even the current bus system is extremely difficult to run given the ground they must cover for such a sparsely populated area. As for the bacon, I am in the DC area and that is hard to come by these days with all the talk of cuts in gov't spending. Plus, I just don't hear any of the leaders in Memphis even speak about improvements to mass transit (be it rail, bus or otherwise) even in the abstract.
What can be done right now, is to move the city planning toward more density. Just can't sprawl forever...
I think the best way to achieve that is by promoting neighborhoods with unique character that are hopefully walkable. That has begun. Hopefully it continues and expands. Herenton implemented a city-planning guideline to stop or limit the kind of sprawl we see on Winchester and G'town Pkwy, but I think it was too little too late. But, now, I think Wharton can resurrect it. But identity and character is more influential in drawing folks to reside near the CYs or downtown than what government does to force their behavior.
I hope the local entrepreneurial attitudes that have fueled Broad Ave spread to other neighborhoods. I'm not sure what, if any, government incentives were used, but they seem to have worked. I know G'town has a long range plan to change the looks and walkability of its shopping center intersections, then you have the University/Highland neighborhood and the Graceland area, all of which have plans in place to improve either the look, walkability, and/or safety of their neighborhoods. They all were affected by the economy, unfortunately, but hopefully they're prodded to resurrect them. That would be a good beginning to positively infect the region with an appreciation for and sense of walkable, character-laden neighborhoods.
I really don't think the locus of Memphis' difficulties is found in methods of 'transportation' or in land mass/sprawl . The obstacles for Memphis' competitiveness seem to rest in far more fundamental underpinnings - as in 'culture', 'attitudes', educational level, and functional politics for the common good.
It actually all goes together. One has led to the other. Many younger, educated people like a pedestrian friendly city and Memphis has trouble keeping those who like the urban lifestyle. Those people bring the 'culture', attitude', educational level etc that you are speaking of.
Quote:
There is, no doubt, a 'love it or leave it' mentality and attitude. This limited view serves to keep Memphis right where it is : BEHIND.
I think that what happens is that those who love Memphis (and even those that are indifferent) get defensive because they get really tired of the constant trashing of the city. I hear what you are saying (I really do) but think about how you would feel if you heard people constantly talking about how much they hated your home town. "Man, if you hate it that much, then you need to leave instead of constantly complaining". And besides, there is not much the person you are complaining to can do about the problem anyway. And most long time Memphians are painfully aware of the city's shortcomings and are as hard on the city as any transplant. No need to remind them.
Let me tell a story that will make this clear.
I had a job stint in Omaha, NE about 20 years ago that lasted about 6 months. I hated it and constantly complained. A co-worker of mine tried to make me feel at home by taking me to some local events like the College World Series, a minor league baseball game and other events. What did I do? Complained the entire time to him (during the events) about how much Omaha sucked instead of enjoying what Omaha had to offer. The co-worker never complained to me, but in retrospect, I must have gotten on his nerves with my constant whining while he was trying to show me the better side of the city. I am so ashamed that I was such a jerk.
That didn't become clear to me until about 10 years later when I had a couple transplants to Memphis give me a dose of my own medicine in spades. Unlike my co-worker in Omaha, I politely told them that they needed to leave if they were so unhappy.
I will admit that the defensiveness is probably a little overly sensitive. For that reason, even I am very careful and guarded in my criticism of the city when I come back home - that is if I say anything at all. I would rather enjoy Memphis for what it is and take it all in. Each time I go home, I do everything from going to a Grizzlies game to bar hopping on Beale to pigging out on the local cuisine.
I think the average Memphian can tell the difference between one making constructive criticism out of love and/or concern and one that is making it out of malice - which often includes name calling. I try to be the former.
There are Memphians that know that the city is 'sick' (to use your metaphor) and are working to make improvements. I sincerely wish you well in your relocation, but try not to trash the city when you are leaving.
I've been following this thread and I've learned a great deal of useful information. First, I do think Memphis is charming, but then we are coming from the San Joaquin Valley (large agricultural area) in California where lunch at the local cowboy bar is upscale. We spent most of our lives in the Bay Area, which has everything, so it will be nice to go to another area with lots to offer.
We are Tennessee wannabes and hope to move by the end of the year. We fell in love with the area years ago on a visit to a friend's house. My husband was in Memphis two weeks ago, scouting for us. We are both going to Memphis mid August to do some serious house hunting. We have our eye on three homes, if they are still there when we return, I think we will write a deal on one of them.
I'm gleaning all the information I can on the different areas, safety being primary, but my husband is retiring and golf is his main priority. We both fly and have been bitten by the ultra light bug so we would like to be near a hobby airport. He'd love to do some fishing too.
My best friend lives in Cordova, so we've checked out a lot of homes in the East of Memphis area. I love old homes and for several years thought about mid-town but we are older and I not sure we want the worry of the upkeep.
I really don't think the locus of Memphis' difficulties is found in methods of 'transportation' or in land mass/sprawl . The obstacles for Memphis' competitiveness seem to rest in far more fundamental underpinnings - as in 'culture', 'attitudes', educational level, and functional politics for the common good.
One poster really echoes my opinion as a transplant. There is, no doubt, a 'love it or leave it' mentality and attitude. This limited view serves to keep Memphis right where it is : BEHIND. In fact, newcomers and especially professional newcomers are truly expected to leave their standards, expectations, lifestyles, and even 'politics' in the cites from where they moved. My wife and I have never experienced such parochialism in our lives- and we, too, are Southerners, but have experienced 'life' elsewhere. It seems that there is an automatic resentment of people that choose to accept positions in Memphis- then, there seems to be the required acceptance of the edict of 'love Memphis or leave it'.
Observation: Someone stated that Memphis TN is 'charming'.
My wife and I both read that comment and laughed out loud. 'Charming' would be the last adjective that comes to our minds it seems. Charleston, SC seems 'charming' to us. Martha's Vineyard also seems 'charming'. A case could be made for cities like Ashville NC perhaps, or several towns in NOVA, or St. Augustine, FL, or Hyannisport. If Memphis were so 'charming', the growth and planning would be self evident it seems to me. Additionally, its residents would be 'charmed' in to not fleeing the city and the region in the thousands.
When my wife and I think of 'charming', Memphis is not a city that comes immediately to mind. This is not an appropriate assessment of this sort of city, sorry to say.
It further seems telling that my comments hit a raw nerve, which is revealing in an important way. The retorts seem torturously and needlessly defensive. Therein lies the crux of many other problems that apparently are deep-seated.
Memphis is certainly a 'sick' patient, but it's not on its deathbed. I fear that perhaps the recovery time is far too lengthy for many people who may be considering a move to Memphis.
Some 'patients' are not aware of their 'sickness', until after a complete examination. Other 'patients' may be in denial, or simply refuse to follow directions, and faithfully take their 'medications'. Still, others become combative, and won't even believe a second 'opinion' or a third 'opinion'. Invariably, the 'patient' becomes much worse - and in some case, the 'patient' dies - either quickly, or in a slow march to his demise. In many cases, the 'patient' takes no corrective action, no 'lifestyle change', then attempts to fool others that he is in good 'health' .
I disagree. The state of Memphis (growth, and etc.) is because of 20 years of bad leadership not current. What I seen so far with the current leadership is far more progressive than the last. The change is evident so far. The leadership can be better though. 5-10 years of good leadershp can change ALOT in Memphis's case. A renewing, growing city is appealing.
It actually all goes together. One has led to the other. Many younger, educated people like a pedestrian friendly city and Memphis has trouble keeping those who like the urban lifestyle. Those people bring the 'culture', attitude', educational level etc that you are speaking of.
I think that what happens is that those who love Memphis (and even those that are indifferent) get defensive because they get really tired of the constant trashing of the city. I hear what you are saying (I really do) but think about how you would feel if you heard people constantly talking about how much they hated your home town. "Man, if you hate it that much, then you need to leave instead of constantly complaining". And besides, there is not much the person you are complaining to can do about the problem anyway. And most long time Memphians are painfully aware of the city's shortcomings and are as hard on the city as any transplant. No need to remind them.
Let me tell a story that will make this clear.
I had a job stint in Omaha, NE about 20 years ago that lasted about 6 months. I hated it and constantly complained. A co-worker of mine tried to make me feel at home by taking me to some local events like the College World Series, a minor league baseball game and other events. What did I do? Complained the entire time to him (during the events) about how much Omaha sucked instead of enjoying what Omaha had to offer. The co-worker never complained to me, but in retrospect, I must have gotten on his nerves with my constant whining while he was trying to show me the better side of the city. I am so ashamed that I was such a jerk.
That didn't become clear to me until about 10 years later when I had a couple transplants to Memphis give me a dose of my own medicine in spades. Unlike my co-worker in Omaha, I politely told them that they needed to leave if they were so unhappy.
I will admit that the defensiveness is probably a little overly sensitive. For that reason, even I am very careful and guarded in my criticism of the city when I come back home - that is if I say anything at all. I would rather enjoy Memphis for what it is and take it all in. Each time I go home, I do everything from going to a Grizzlies game to bar hopping on Beale to pigging out on the local cuisine.
I think the average Memphian can tell the difference between one making constructive criticism out of love and/or concern and one that is making it out of malice - which often includes name calling. I try to be the former.
There are Memphians that know that the city is 'sick' (to use your metaphor) and are working to make improvements. I sincerely wish you well in your relocation, but try not to trash the city when you are leaving.
You're right. I grew up in Memphis, and was smothered in the self-loathing in the 80s. I have not met another community with that low of a self-esteem. Many people had to leave Memphis to see that the hyperbole of negativity they were indoctrinated in was not present elsewhere, and that other cities shared many of the same struggles, without a sense of low self-esteem.
Most Memphians know about most of the flaws. Most of those want them improved. Improvements have occurred. They are not enough, but they are better than the final years of the Herenton administration.
Also, you're right on that people who are proud of a city's history and share a hope for a better future closer to its potential, can sense mocking condescension and demeaning posts. Those that appear to be an establishment of status more than suggestions of inspiration or improvement. Memphis has to improve, and can. Memphis needs new ideas, and new people bearing those ideas. I hope the previous poster who visited through returns even if just on a visit to share more of his impressions. People who share the spirit but have a different or new vision for different parts of our region. An intransigent status quo will not fly either. There will be change. So those comfortable will just have to deal with that. Part of that improvement is in an informed assertion of pride not just in the history of this pioneering city, but in the progress the city's in the beginning of.
Edit: as an aside, along the lines of your Omaha experience, thanks to my experiences at a private school in Memphis devoted to community service, as well as MPact, I joined young professional networks in both St. Louis and Tucson. I definitely rate both lower personally than Memphis, but that participation mitigated my misery, and actually gave me motivation and a sense of community I wouldn't have had otherwise. I'm still in Tucson, still participating, and think that that is fruitful if not essential wherever one is, regardless of their present state of happiness. Whether one stays or leaves, I'm convinced that that involvement has a lasting influence on both the community one leaves, and one's self as well. At least I hope so, lol...
I disagree. The state of Memphis (growth, and etc.) is because of 20 years of bad leadership not current. What I seen so far with the current leadership is far more progressive than the last. The change is evident so far. The leadership can be better though. 5-10 years of good leadershp can change ALOT in Memphis's case. A renewing, growing city is appealing.
I guess the other person's point may be that, wherever stage Memphis is at in its transformation, to satisfy anyone's arbitrary standard may be too long for that person, if that makes sense.
I agree though, and mentioned something similar but more detailed here in January: //www.city-data.com/forum/memph...l#post22606232. The collaboration between city and county has been just remarkable, and seems to have expanded. Memphis and the region will not achieve its potential without all engines moving in the same direction (even Tunica -- they need to nip their isolationist attempts reflected by their demands of the American Queen at the door).
I've been following this thread and I've learned a great deal of useful information. First, I do think Memphis is charming, but then we are coming from the San Joaquin Valley (large agricultural area) in California where lunch at the local cowboy bar is upscale. We spent most of our lives in the Bay Area, which has everything, so it will be nice to go to another area with lots to offer.
We are Tennessee wannabes and hope to move by the end of the year. We fell in love with the area years ago on a visit to a friend's house. My husband was in Memphis two weeks ago, scouting for us. We are both going to Memphis mid August to do some serious house hunting. We have our eye on three homes, if they are still there when we return, I think we will write a deal on one of them.
I'm gleaning all the information I can on the different areas, safety being primary, but my husband is retiring and golf is his main priority. We both fly and have been bitten by the ultra light bug so we would like to be near a hobby airport. He'd love to do some fishing too.
My best friend lives in Cordova, so we've checked out a lot of homes in the East of Memphis area. I love old homes and for several years thought about mid-town but we are older and I not sure we want the worry of the upkeep.
This forum has been a huge help.
Good luck! Hopefully Memphis is the right spot for y'all! I don't know if there are gen av airports in the east side, but there's one downtown and I'm sure in Millington as well.
I really don't think the locus of Memphis' difficulties is found in methods of 'transportation' or in land mass/sprawl . The obstacles for Memphis' competitiveness seem to rest in far more fundamental underpinnings - as in 'culture', 'attitudes', educational level, and functional politics for the common good.
One poster really echoes my opinion as a transplant. There is, no doubt, a 'love it or leave it' mentality and attitude. This limited view serves to keep Memphis right where it is : BEHIND. In fact, newcomers and especially professional newcomers are truly expected to leave their standards, expectations, lifestyles, and even 'politics' in the cites from where they moved. My wife and I have never experienced such parochialism in our lives- and we, too, are Southerners, but have experienced 'life' elsewhere. It seems that there is an automatic resentment of people that choose to accept positions in Memphis- then, there seems to be the required acceptance of the edict of 'love Memphis or leave it'.
Observation: Someone stated that Memphis TN is 'charming'.
My wife and I both read that comment and laughed out loud. 'Charming' would be the last adjective that comes to our minds it seems. Charleston, SC seems 'charming' to us. Martha's Vineyard also seems 'charming'. A case could be made for cities like Ashville NC perhaps, or several towns in NOVA, or St. Augustine, FL, or Hyannisport. If Memphis were so 'charming', the growth and planning would be self evident it seems to me. Additionally, its residents would be 'charmed' in to not fleeing the city and the region in the thousands.
When my wife and I think of 'charming', Memphis is not a city that comes immediately to mind. This is not an appropriate assessment of this sort of city, sorry to say.
It further seems telling that my comments hit a raw nerve, which is revealing in an important way. The retorts seem torturously and needlessly defensive. Therein lies the crux of many other problems that apparently are deep-seated.
Memphis is certainly a 'sick' patient, but it's not on its deathbed. I fear that perhaps the recovery time is far too lengthy for many people who may be considering a move to Memphis.
Some 'patients' are not aware of their 'sickness', until after a complete examination. Other 'patients' may be in denial, or simply refuse to follow directions, and faithfully take their 'medications'. Still, others become combative, and won't even believe a second 'opinion' or a third 'opinion'. Invariably, the 'patient' becomes much worse - and in some case, the 'patient' dies - either quickly, or in a slow march to his demise. In many cases, the 'patient' takes no corrective action, no 'lifestyle change', then attempts to fool others that he is in good 'health' .
The sensitivity of the raw nerve may not be the fault of the patient, but of anyone implementing a technique (such as mocking or demeaning condescension) that lends itself to aggravating the injury. One doesn't press down on a bruise and expect a smile. And if that's all one does, without a prescription for healing, there will be a sense that the pressing down was unnecessary.
Memphis isn't running any ultra marathons anytime soon, and it needs to improve. I welcome all hands on deck to make those improvements.
Last edited by Kabluey; 06-05-2012 at 02:44 PM..
Reason: delete some hasty, but brilliant, comments
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
