Why do so many people think all of Memphis is bad? (Germantown: apartment, violent crime)

[Darkseid]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who doesn't want Memphis to grow quickly. If I wanted to live in Atlanta or Dallas, I would move to one of those cities. From my POV, Memphis is so much more managable at our current size. If Nashville wants all the traffic, they can have it.

The city of Memphis proper could take another 300K people tomorrow without blinking an eye. And the roads are so wide in the area that I'm not sure there will ever be traffic problems there.

[VSRJ]

Originally Posted by Darkseid

Part of what was behind my comment was that some people (not you) often throw out the fact that Memphis (city limit-wise) is larger than many other major cities (such as the ones I cited) without qualifying it, as if to say that it is somehow doing better than those cities. It is extremely misleading.

No, Memphis is not a "small" town, but it is not in the league with cities that are much more densely populated in the city core, much more pedestrian oriented, have multiple professional sports teams etc.

For example, Memphians often wonder why the public transportation system is so bad there. Well, part of the answer is in the sheer size of the footprint of the city given the sparsity. it is much easier for buses to cover 70 sq miles of dense population than it is to cover over 300 sq miles of sparse population.

While downtown Memphis is a pretty nice place, it is not the real "live, work, play" center that it should be because in decades past, the construction enforcement approved new subdivision after new subdivision out east instead of investing more into the current footprint of the city.

At this point, Memphis needs to define an urban core or three and make those areas more pedestrian friendly and continue with the cycling initiatives to compliment it. They need to build UP instead of OUT. Need more 10+ story hotels in downtown area. Also need more brand hotels in the Graceland/airport area. Part of the reason Memphis has trouble attracting conferences is because of lack of hotel space in close proximity to tourist spots. Many people have to get hotels as far away as Arlington for major events. Tourists should not have to drive 20 miles back and forth from their hotel.

end of rant...

The good news is that I see baby steps in that direction

I agree with all of this. Memphis needs to stop annexing, and if anything, de-annex (i.e. Davies Manor Plantation area, I believe).

Memphis is a "small town" in some aspects (not really in square miles), but I believe people have unrealistic expectations for Memphis to only have "small town" problems. That's just not the case when you're dealing with a top-50 MSA/CSA with over a million residents.

I agree about your point regarding downtown. I think the "live" and "play" aspects are doing well (Forbes listed Memphis' as a top emerging downtown: Memphis, Tenn. - In Photos: 15 U.S. Cities' Emerging Downtowns - Forbes), but the "work" area needs some help. For instance, I would love to work and live downtown after graduating, but most of the jobs that I'm looking at are located in East Memphis--which I find to be very dry for young professionals.

[jmjordan]

Originally Posted by VSRJ

For instance, I would love to work and live downtown after graduating, but most of the jobs that I'm looking at are located in East Memphis--which I find to be very dry for young professionals.

This X10000000

I live downtown but work 30 minutes east of my house. I rush back downtown as soon as I can after work. If I could walk/bike to work my opinion of the city and likelihood of staying would increase tremendously.

[Darkseid]

Originally Posted by VSRJ

I think the "live" and "play" aspects are doing well (Forbes listed Memphis' as a top emerging downtown: Memphis, Tenn. - In Photos: 15 U.S. Cities' Emerging Downtowns - Forbes), but the "work" area needs some help. For instance, I would love to work and live downtown after graduating, but most of the jobs that I'm looking at are located in East Memphis--which I find to be very dry for young professionals.

Spot on. Downtown Memphis is a good place to "play" and even to live, but here is part of the problem with the "work" part: Back in the late 70s/early 80s, developers and politicians seeing a very dead downtown Memphis (I am old enough to remember it. It was horrible) decided to develop what would essentially be a "second" downtown of sorts along Polar Ave just west and east of I-240. If you notice, there are many office buildings and major companies (International Paper, Mid-America Apartments, Baker Donelson, and a number of other medium sized companies and feeder businesses) that would be very suitable downtown (the real one), but are located in that "second downtown" area. Back in the 80s these developers even lobbied to have a sports arena placed out east. Thankfully that never happened.

Even today, much of the Memphis and Shelby County gov't moved many divisions and offices out of downtown offices and to eastern parts of the city. The Memphis/Shelby County Code Enforcement, amongst others, for example used to be downtown Memphis, but moved to offices out east in the Shelby Farms area. So the city doesn't even have enough vision to keep many offices downtown to boost its "work" appeal. Walking around downtown Memphis during the day is almost depressing. It would be a major coup if a couple of non-tourist oriented companies could be recruited to locate/relocate downtown. Then perhaps more daytime commerce would develop.

But there is some good news. A quite nice "medical center" is developing around the downtown area and many of those professionals are deciding to live in that area. What is lacking is the schools. Many downtown area parents drive their children all the way across town to private schools.

[eastmemphisguy]

I agree with those who said that people from outside the region are not the ones with negative perceptions. We're small enough that we're not even on the radar of most of the country. I was talking more about suburban people and the rural people within a few hours' drive. And even some people who live here! A very large number of folks here are transplants or the children of transplants from rural AR and MS , many of whose nearby counties have been losing large population (by percent) for decades. It's impossible to "get" Memphis without wrapping your head around that.
Regarding density, I wish there weren't so many vacant lots and abandonments, and I wish the street grid in more recent neighborhoods were more logical, but I don't want Memphis to be a concrete jungle either. Walking everywhere is great in cities with a better climate. With our heat and humidity, it'd be unbearable. The sprawl does get silly in more far flung suburbs, but that's true everywhere.
As for the hotels, I have no doubt Hilton and Marriott would build them if the demand were there consistently. There's no city in America that doesn't book up during one big event or another.

[VSRJ]

My original comment was removed because a comment I quoted was removed, but I'll say this again:

Memphis is not perfect. No city is. But if you live in Memphis and do nothing to help make it a better place, then you can't be surprised when nothing happens. If you involve yourself in the community, you may even start to see a side of Memphis you weren't previously familiar with. I've volunteered with several Memphis community organizations, and each time I do, I fall in love with the city a little bit more. There are great things happening here, but they're not leading the 5:00 news. You have to dig a little. Learn something about wherever you live. Try and make it a better place for future generations. You'll probably find that Memphis isn't such a bad place. /rant

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by VSRJ

You're both correct. I should have referenced population by CSA/MSA rather than by city limit. Still, Memphis is 41st in the U.S., which is respectable. And you face the same issue when ranking CSAs/MSAs by population. The Memphis MSA (41st) comprises 3,013 sq. mi., while the Nashville MSA (36th) comprises 7,484 sq. mi.

I'd just like to point out that someone hasn't updated Memphis's wikipedia page in quite a while. The Memphis MSA is not 3,013 sq mi, and hasn't been for a while. Your numbers for Nashville's MSA are off as well. I believe that is the CSA number.

Memphis MSA:
Crittenden, AR - 609.76
Benton, MS - 406.62
DeSoto, MS - 476.15
Marshall, MS - 706.19
Tate, MS - 404.76
Tunica, MS - 454.67
Fayette, TN - 704.79
Shelby, TN - 763.17
Tipton, TN - 458.37

Total: 4,984.48 sq mi

Nashville MSA:
Cannon, TN - 265.64
Cheatham, TN - 302.44
Davidson, TN - 504.03
Dickson, TN - 489.90
Hickman, TN - 612.50
Macon, TN - 307.14
Maury, TN - 613.14
Robertson, TN - 476.29
Rutherford, TN - 619.36
Smith, TN - 314.29
Sumner, TN - 529.45
Trousdale, TN - 114.19
Williamson, TN - 582.60
Wilson, TN - 570.83

Total: 6,301.80 sq mi

I've explained this before. If Memphis and Nashville's MSA's were perfect squares, Memphis's would be 70.6 x 70.6 miles, and Nashville's would be 79.4 x 79.4 miles.

[tigerphan]

People who can't find anything positive about Memphis are not even trying.

That being said, I do think that the city's most difficult time is ahead of it.

[VSRJ]

^ Why do you say that?

[Darkseid]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

Regarding density, I wish there weren't so many vacant lots and abandonments, and I wish the street grid in more recent neighborhoods were more logical

That is why I said earlier in the thread that Memphis could take another 300K people tomorrow without blinking an eye. The number of abandoned homes is astounding. The good news is that the city is trying to demolish some of those homes.

but I don't want Memphis to be a concrete jungle either. Walking everywhere is great in cities with a better climate. With our heat and humidity, it'd be unbearable. The sprawl does get silly in more far flung suburbs, but that's true everywhere.

No, not the entire city, but a hand full of areas do need rezoning for higher density. I believe that the airport/Graceland area should be made higher density and more walkable. I envision an Elvis Presley Blvd (Graceland area) that looks more like Overton Square. Perhaps I am thinking too big, but I would like to see something along those lines.

As for the hotels, I have no doubt Hilton and Marriott would build them if the demand were there consistently. There's no city in America that doesn't book up during one big event or another.

The need for more hotel space (along with a new convention center) is one of the big wish list items for "movers and shakers" in Memphis. New Orleans is about the same size as Memphis but has far more hotel rooms available. Problem is that the gov't can't just wave a wand and mandate more hotel rooms.