Forrest Park

[Blink101]

Originally Posted by Longtimelistener

Oh, and if you do some research rather than believe in tall tales Forrest had nothing to do with the KKK. All in all this really isn't an issue this city should be worried about. There are much bigger things to tackle but the council seems to love wasting time debating small things like this. Small town mentality in a big city. Not good.

That's an interesting perspective. While I find it fallacious and arrogant to insinuate someone has not done research and merely heard "tall tales" simply because you disagree, I am always curious about different points of view on various subjects. Can you offer some historical documents or journals which you base your opinion on? I would be happy to expand my knowledge. I have mostly been going by witness accounts/journals from former Klan members, some newspaper archives from the late 1800s and the Congressional investigation report of 1872. Beyond that, I must confess I haven't cared too much for looking into Nathan Bedford Forrest so I likely still have much to learn.

I believe you're probably right that Memphis has bigger things to worry about, but the sorts of monuments a city upholds does say quite a bit about it. The way outsiders perceive a city might seem inconsequential to some, but considering that tourism and entertaiment/music is an important part of Memphis' economy, I think the way the city presents and preserves its local history is extremely important.

To be completely honest, I have always felt it was excessive for Memphis to have 3 (or more) parks dedicated to the Civil War in one way or another. It seems like more has happened there in the last 150 years which might also be nice to build memorials in parks to... Perhaps it would be good for Memphis to concentrate all its Civil War history into one park specifically designed to promote its role during the war and then reappropriate others? I think Memphis might be able to boost its appeal to visitors if it did. It's just a thought, but I always think it's fun to go to parks and sites which have a high concentration of history. Kind of like an outdoor museum, you could say?

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by Blink101

That's an interesting perspective. While I find it fallacious and arrogant to insinuate someone has not done research and merely heard "tall tales" simply because you disagree, I am always curious about different points of view on various subjects. Can you offer some historical documents or journals which you base your opinion on? I would be happy to expand my knowledge. I have mostly been going by witness accounts/journals from former Klan members, some newspaper archives from the late 1800s and the Congressional investigation report of 1872. Beyond that, I must confess I haven't cared too much for looking into Nathan Bedford Forrest so I likely still have much to learn.

I believe you're probably right that Memphis has bigger things to worry about, but the sorts of monuments a city upholds does say quite a bit about it. The way outsiders perceive a city might seem inconsequential to some, but considering that tourism and entertaiment/music is an important part of Memphis' economy, I think the way the city presents and preserves its local history is extremely important.

To be completely honest, I have always felt it was excessive for Memphis to have 3 (or more) parks dedicated to the Civil War in one way or another. It seems like more has happened there in the last 150 years which might also be nice to build memorials in parks to... Perhaps it would be good for Memphis to concentrate all its Civil War history into one park specifically designed to promote its role during the war and then reappropriate others? I think Memphis might be able to boost its appeal to visitors if it did. It's just a thought, but I always think it's fun to go to parks and sites which have a high concentration of history. Kind of like an outdoor museum, you could say?

There are several good Forrest bios to read when it comes to learning about the man, the first I'd recommend is the one by Jack Hurst.

The park was there for over 100 years, why change it now?

And, in light of this subject, this happened recently:

Bill to halt renaming of Confederate parks in Tennessee

[characterRef]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

The park was there for over 100 years, why change it now?

so was slavery, friend



Memphis has no doubt bigger fish to fry, but it's revealing why the conversation exists on the front page in the first place - that alone is a testament to its backwardness IMHO

[maliretriever]

Memphis was named for an ancient city dominated by slave owners who held an entire nation as their slaves.
Rename Memphis, call it Martin Luther King City. We wouldn't want to honor slave owners, would we?

[Longtimelistener]

From PBS which is as middle of the road/left as you can get.
The man was an incredible military leader. If the statue had him with a whip in his hand or a hood on his head it would be celebrating the bad he was affiliated with. If we are going to go after all honored people who owned slaves I guess many streets named after former Presidents should come next?
Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest and the KKK | Follow the Stories | Antiques Roadshow | PBS

[Blink101]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

There are several good Forrest bios to read when it comes to learning about the man, the first I'd recommend is the one by Jack Hurst.

The park was there for over 100 years, why change it now?

And, in light of this subject, this happened recently:

Bill to halt renaming of Confederate parks in Tennessee

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will definitely look into Jack Hurst's work on Nathan Bedford Forrest. If you can think of any other authors or historical publications that might be interesting I would be absolutely thrilled if you would send them to me. I love things which challenge my understanding and preconceived notions of the world.

Hm... I'm a little torn on how I feel about that bill... As a history enthusiast I would love it if everything could always be preserved forever (the good, the bad and the ugly included) It's always well intentioned yet many times misguided when people try to cover up or destroy controversial monuments of any sort. However, I also believe that the methods of preserving history do need to change in accordance with a changing society. We also need to be cautious about potentially crossing the line between respecting history and glorifying it. There are too many times when I sit down with friends to temper their passions by explaining that preserving things like the Confederate Flag is important, but there is a great responsibility which comes with it. Sometimes when they defend leaving it up in certain places, an evaluation of how it came to be there frequently reveals they are actually defending the abuse and desecration of the flag instead of honoring veterans or heritage. (Personally, I don't identify with it as literal heritage since I'm from an area which was HEAVILY Unionist. I understand and respect their feelings, though.) We must always be careful to thoroughly evaluate when our good intentions might inadvertently be condoning such desecration or, sometimes, erroneous uses which undermine our purpose. I think it's imperative that history is preserved, but it must be preserved in a manner which respects our ancestors and the diversity of our history as Tennessee continues to grow.

Here is another suggestion I thought of for Memphis when it comes to monuments! Why not take a page from Nashville and create a new monument to the USCT? A few years ago Nashvillians commissioned an absolutely beautiful statue honoring the USCT and placed it in their national cemetery. I don't know how many Memphis boys joined the USCT, but I know Tennessee was the third largest supplier of USCT troops during the Civil War. We are the mighty Volunteer State so what could possibly be more Tennessee than honoring the service of our volunteers? I think perhaps one of Memphis' problems might be that there hasn't been enough done to honor both Confederate AND Union soldiers. I would think (but admittedly don't know for certain) that Memphis should easily be able to out class Nashville in the number of its USCT veterans. Perhaps if Memphis would work harder at embracing all of its heritage, everyone would have an easier time accepting that former slaves and former slave owners were both valuable parts of defining the city. Perhaps not always in ways that appeal to our politically correct sensibilities, but we can't always pick and choose our history.

[maliretriever]

The city council and hizzoner have proposed renaming Forrest Park to Civil War Park and erecting a statue of Ulysses Simpson Grant for balance.
I can support this idea but, the statue representing the Northern side should be General Cadwalader C. Washburn, which would be more fitting to share a park with General Nathan Bedford Forrest.

[Blutbad]

Interesting idea. Perhaps it would be fitting to erect a statue of him in his nightshirt, right around where his headquarters were located? Read about his military career: Cadwallader C. Washburn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Veracity69]

There is no evidence to date that substantiates that Gen. Forrest was ever a member of the KKK, they did not manufacture his affiliation until after his death.