Massive depression and anxiety in a friend (really - not with me :) )
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All I can do is say I understand where my friend is coming from and there's nothing I can do about it. I'll send the website to my friend. Antidepressants, however, do not correct the problem. They just make us more numb to what's going' on around us (if they even work and the verdict is a bit out on that one yet ...).
Take care and thanks again. You should find a national forum where this can be posted because with more and more foreclosures squeezing in and unemployment skyrocketing and going overseas people will need the info.
Take care.
First things first, I understand where you're coming from. I'm a male in my late 20s and have been suffering from depression for nearly a decade without ever really realizing it. I'm normally a quiet person to begin with, the definition of introverted so I thought that what I was feeling was normal. I never sat around crying, but just always felt down in the dumps.
Gradually over years the depression became worse and worse. In college my school work suffered greatly, I only graduated by the skin of my teeth. I graduated without a single friend. I had supportive family that was close by, but it wasn't enough. I didn't have any major health or financial issues ($40k in school loans, but made enough to live comfortably and work towards paying them down without any late or missed payments). I've had decent jobs since I graduated college, nothing fantastic or particularly interesting, but decent jobs in my field. I really just didn't have anything major to complain about.
At this point I finally came to realize I was in a bad place mentally and attempted to turn to the religious route. I grew up attending a protestant church with family, but never really connected or 'bought into' the whole thing. I started attending a modern local church, filled to the brim with people in my age range. It seemed to help for a little while, but was really just suspending the feelings... still didn't really buy into it, too much of an empiricist.
In the past year, my depression worsened.
Around New Years 2010 things started spiraling downhill. I started drinking on a more regular basis (1-2 drinks a night)... attending every 'happy hour' with work friends, going to parties and getting drunk, driving when I shouldn't have been. Spent my new years 2010 hugging a porcelain bowl at my friend's apartment. Reduced my drinking for a little while, but ramped it back up and decided to try some MJ for the first time (never smoked before in my life) while drunk. Spent another night hugging the porcelain bowl. Apparently spent the night in a weird position, causing my arm to go numb... went to the emergency room thinking I had really done some damage... turns out there's a name for it "Saturday Night Palsy". My arm was numbish for a few days... but eventually regained all feeling.
It was at this point I decided to quit drinking altogether, which probably saved my life. So far I haven't had anything to drink in 5 months.
My performance at work had dwindled into nothingness, getting to the point where my manager was getting concerned. Making simple mistakes in more frequently, arriving at work later and later, and simply not caring about anything. My thoughts frequently turned towards ideas of "what's the point?", turning towards the philosophy of existential nihilism (you're born, life sucks, then you die), soon consuming nearly every waking moment. This progressed into non-specific thoughts of death, thoughts of "i wouldn't really be missing anything if i weren't here anymore", and "there's no way life gets any better if it sucks this much now".
And I finally decided to get some help.
I went to my doctor and discussed it with him. Spent a good hour discussing the depression. He wanted to follow up with me about a month after that appointment (I had just switched to a new doctor). For my followup, my doctor was actually out sick and I met with a very experienced nurse practitioner who again sat and listened to what I had to say. At this point, she wrote a script for Zoloft. I was wary... I've always been an advocate for letting nature figure things out and fixing things on it's own. For example, when I had to get my wisdom teeth out, I only had Novocaine during the surgery and Advil after the fact. However I was at such a point that I was ready to try anything to get back to normal and took the script.
It's now been three months since I first went on Zoloft (or rather the generic)... at the lowest dosage. I haven't felt this good in years. My performance and concentration at work has skyrocketed. I actually enjoy going to work... although I still dislike the whole getting out of my nice warm bed bit The negative thoughts have vanished and I can think clearly for the first time in I don't know how long. The hardest part has been working to break the bad habits I've formed over the years... namely procrastinating and general slobbishness. I haven't experienced any of the negative side effects associated with the drug, I don't feel numb to the world... in fact quite the opposite.
So I would encourage you/your friend to talk to a professional. It doesn't have to be a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Don't be so quick to discount medication as a viable option, for some people it's exactly what they need.
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TL;DR version: I was depressed, medication can help. In my case it helped a lot.
Yes, Stille_nacht1, 6500 for 22 days, and then they had the nerve to send around their newsletter asking for donations (money and material items). As if it had slipped my mind i paid 6500 last year for her care, and that it certainly wasn't donated to her. I was so outraged I phoned them and said take me off your mailing list, NOW! I hope your friends kids do what they can to help. Feeling alone and forgotten makes people feel more like, whats the point of it all anyway.
Yeah, they raise taxes, rather than stop buying need less new high tech stuff, or trimming the fat from their own bloated agencies. And they will make sure the rich still have their tax loop holes available too. Oh, and don't forget how they vote themselves raises. That's the American way.
Hope things go as well as they can with regards to the landlord and rent. What state/city do you live in, Stille_nacht1?
Glad to see the meds helped you, CU. Zoloft did nothing for me, but made me tired.
Rowing: I have a list of meds. that did nothing for me except cause side-affects. I'm not discounting them for other people. Sometimes, they do work. Even if they just cause a placebo effect they work.
My friend does see a therapist.
Todd00: I so agree with you. My partner and I went to see a new tax accountant here (we're now in Asheville but my friend is in NJ) and he had a frank discussion about what was happening from his view and I agreed with everything (I think ) he said. My partner walked out of there depressed, I walked out thinking "I'm glad I don't tell xxx what I really think. And, I'm glad to hear it from another source!" So many people are idiots out there... it was outrageous to ask you for a donation and I know some people still give them and bleed from giving.
Well, this is an interesting albeit sad discussion but it's good it's taking place. Everyone's input has been good.
I know for me, I question how much of what I deal with is depression and how much is reality based. Stille_Nacht1, with regards to your friend, I wonder if it could not be the same. I mean, with this country and world as it is, there is plenty to be depressed about. Was your friend this way before? Does your friend have a history of depression? I do not think checking out is the solution for her. She has children and to do so would ruin their lives. She might want to attend a suicide survivor's group if there is any doubt in this area. Death is hard enough to handle as it is, but when self inflicted (and believe me, I do understand depression and how life just gets to be too much for some people), I think when one has children it's a different story. If someone is terminally ill then I'm all for death with dignity (OR and WA laws). I always think there might be one more solution around the corner - maybe a lucky break, a new drug, a new Dr, a new therapist.
I have dealt with depression for more years than I care to mention. I've tried so many drugs and not much success. I have now been diagnosed with bipolar depression, which just means the lows are even lower than is the case with unipolar. So I am taking more pills than I care to mention. Still, when I go off of everything (as I did in 2009) things just went drastically downhill. If the drugs at least stabilize me and keep me from getting to that point again, I will take them. Even if they don't seem to work, I've seen the results of just going cold turkey off of them and it wasn't pretty.
Back to your friend, her depression may be long-standing compounded by situational depression, or it may be situational depression. Neither is good but I think the latter is easier to work with and see results. I pretty much have treatment resistant depression too, but I refuse to give up the fight, at least for today. It is one day at a time and hoping for improvement and doing what little one can to take baby steps in the right direction. I think your friend should check out going on medication, as from what I read she is only seeing a therapist? One really has to do both in cases of severe depression.
Well, think I've written enough here. Look forward to addt input from all.
Yup, agreed. Thanks for responding. The number of friends who are at their wits end is increasing. I heard about a similar story from a friend @1 month ago now, it's affecting me personally. There doesn't seem to be anything we can do.
I don't know about paying for insurance not being smart. At 1200/month, that would be well over .33 of my own earnings a year. I've decided that my own return on the investment isn't worth it at this time. My husband decided to get it. I'm not sure it's worth it even for him. The government had death panels long before Palin brought it up, for sure.
BTW, very interesting comment. Could you elaborate on it?
I think if one doesn't have any real assets to lose, rolling the dice on no insurance is a good option. In my case, I don't want to lose the roof over my head and my Dr. told me in this state they'll only let you keep $150K in equity in a house. (He also told me with my conditions (which go beyond depression) I need to have insurance.) If I were to get really sick, I'd lose a heck of a lot. I may go broke anyway and lose it all, but for now I'm not.
As to affecting you personally, you have to take care of you. I understand how draining and upsetting it must be for you to be faced with such discussions. Your choices might be to distance yourself (which does not help depressed people at all), or try to change the subject to something upbeat and positive, or try to point out what your friends DO have, or to suggest they make a gratitude list, or to suggest professional help and tell them, while you're behind them 100% that you are not a professoinal and don't want to say the wrong thing (which sounds to me like the truth if I read you right). I've been told point blank, by my one of my dearest friends, that at times she just cannot discuss certain things with me as she feels overwhelmed. While this has hurt my feelings, I do get it and so I now find other things to talk about. I guess I just don't totally open up but it still helps having her as a friend.
Just my two cents. Oh, and sometimes it helps to switch therapists or Drs. I spent six years with one Dr. and got nowhere. As an example, when my dad was in hospice, I asked him for TWO Klonopin - one for the plane ride and one for the funeral. His response to me was call me when your dad dies and I will see if I can help you. So much for him. Then I went to another Dr. and didn't think he was getting it either. Then I went to another Dr. I finally found one who "gets it" and trusts me enough to give me what I need to deal with things.
Last edited by mistygrl092; 01-16-2011 at 10:18 AM..
Reason: add thoughts
As far as the donation, Stille, I also found it outrageous, and I wasn't nice when I asked them to take me off their list. This is obviously a for profit business, but funny some of these kind of places manage to get themselves listed as a not for profit.
Misty, are you BP1 or 2? I thought I might be BP2, when I asked my crackerjack VA Doc, she said, could be. Thanks Doc, and you needed 12 yrs of medical school to tell me that? I would have laughed had it not been so sad she cared so little she didn't even pursue finding out. BP2 is very often missed in the diagnosis, thats why finding a top quality Doc is so important. Here is an interesting site, its written by a Doc, and has much information on BP2 (Bipolar II, Mood Swings without Mania; Brain Tours; Stress and Depression; Hormones and Mood; and more...). It mentions that the high side can take on other forms, and come out as anger or anxiety, that sounds more like me, as I don't get the traditional highside. I do feel I get the traditional BP low, which is just awful, as you know. There are many interesting things on this site such as "brain tours".
That's just awful you practically had to beg for a couple of Klonopin. That Doc has a major control problem. Docs hate patients that are well read and ask questions, it diminishes their god like status. If this guys own father had passed away, he would have been popping xanax or klonopin for sure. It's not like you asked for a whole bottle or something. Some of them just have to make it harder still. It can be quite a challenge finding a decent provider. And very frustrating to those with depression and anxiety issues, for sure. I believe its rare to find a Psychiatrist that actually takes the time for a complete evaluation and listens to the patient. Most are in a hurry to whip out a script and usher you out of the office. After all it isn't them trying to cope each day, and the patient that is hard to treat is just a burden to them. I've seen it many times over the years. Therapists, well same thing applies. Have they ever struggled themselves, are they just book trained, wet behind the ears in the sense of understanding what the patient goes through each day. That's the only kind I've found. I do think some pple have a natural gift of empathy and understanding, those are the best types of therapists, but they are very rare. The ones I've encountered, let me ramble on, as they thought of their golf game, whats for dinner, that spat with the wife, or the new car they have their eye on. And we are paying for what, a blank stare, or some overused cliche. As they watch the clock like a kid waiting for the 3pm bell. It's insulting and upsetting to have those types masquerading as therapists.
I'm surprised they would let pple keep 150k in equity from a house, I'd check on that to make sure. I'd want to see it in writing. As far as long term care, say in patient nursing home care, if the patient has a house they have to exhaust their assets, or spend down as they call it, before the government will kick in and pay anything. They will let the person keep some ridiculously small amount a month for expenses. I learned about this due to my mother. She had Medicare and a supplement, but it would only pay for a month or so in a long term care unit. So pple have to lose everything they have worked for in order to get any government assistance. People should know all about this before a family member might need care. I think its a terrible system. Prisoners convicted of the most hideous crimes can get this care for free, but law abiding pple that have worked hard their entire lives are faced with losing all their assets? Some great system, eh? People complain about Canada's system, yes it might not be perfect, but certainly neither is ours. Of course the so called representatives in Washington have their own great health care system, so what do they care about the common man. The insurance companies, politicians and the nursing homes are all happy though. The masses go along like sheep, nodding their heads as one. Sorry, I don't mean to add to the depression, with this topic, but it is what it is.
I'm glad you found a better provider and continue to fight the depression, Misty. I wish you the best, Stille.
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