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Old 01-14-2020, 10:34 AM
 
1,456 posts, read 509,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39 View Post
The real problem is loneliness. I thought I was "different" because I feel so isolated and alone. Nope, I'm not special. Its an epidemic in this country. I don't know what the solution is, but it has gotten worse. Nobody is really talking about it. I've done a lot of reading on it, but its still largely ignored. Middle aged single white men have the highest suicide rate in the country largely because of this. I know I feel very alone as one of those men.
You appear to have been on C-D for quite some time. Have you not made any friends on this site? Do you regularly talk to people on here? Is there anyone here you can open up to?
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
5,353 posts, read 5,767,157 times
Reputation: 6561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
You appear to have been on C-D for quite some time. Have you not made any friends on this site? Do you regularly talk to people on here? Is there anyone here you can open up to?
Well yeah, I've communicated with a couple people from here. They're not local though, so not the same thing. No, there's nobody here I know well enough to open up to. Thats reserved mostly for therapy because I've lost touch with so many friends over the years. It sucks. I do have 2-3 friends here locally (I'm not from here), but thats about it in the 7 years I've lived here. It would theoretically be easier if I was married (different challenges, which I welcome), and thats my intention for this year. I'm going overseas in search for a wife in March. I don't need a wife to "complete" me, but to feel fulfilled I do. I know I have so much to offer and its not recognized where I live.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:53 AM
 
5,427 posts, read 4,405,092 times
Reputation: 7252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I realize this is an old post.

But is the real problem loneliness or is it just feeling self conscious that the person doesn't have 'x' number of friends.

If it is being lonely, I'd recommend going out to make a few friends. But if it's just "society says I have to have x number of friends" it's not something to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39 View Post
The real problem is loneliness. I thought I was "different" because I feel so isolated and alone. Nope, I'm not special. Its an epidemic in this country. I don't know what the solution is, but it has gotten worse. Nobody is really talking about it. I've done a lot of reading on it, but its still largely ignored. Middle aged single white men have the highest suicide rate in the country largely because of this. I know I feel very alone as one of those men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39 View Post
I do have 2-3 friends here locally (I'm not from here), but thats about it in the 7 years I've lived here. It would theoretically be easier if I was married (different challenges, which I welcome), and thats my intention for this year. I'm going overseas in search for a wife in March. I don't need a wife to "complete" me, but to feel fulfilled I do. I know I have so much to offer and its not recognized where I live.
I have expressed my perception numerous times that friendship is overrated. It is a time suck in a lot of cases.

With that said though, times do occur where being able to talk to someone in person or on the phone with someone who you semi-regularly see in person is helpful. Those who have no romantic partner have the greatest need for this interaction.

A long term romantic relationship or a marriage can mask a lot of friendship issues, particularly for men, who seem to suffer more from friendship issues than women. Given that most relationships are transient, the lack of friendship issue will eventually come to light. In non-transient relationships, there are plenty of relationships and marriages that are generally unpleasant but seem to be surviving on inertia. Some of those people would benefit from friends.

Middle aged single white men not in romantic relationships have a high suicide rate for a lot of reasons. Many middle aged white men had a nasty divorce than harmed them financially. If a middle aged single white man didn't marry, he'll often have baggage from past non-marital relationships and/or the pain of a massive amount of searing rejections. Neither of those are good. Also, middle aged, single and unattached, white men are usually "persona non-grata" in most social circles, even as transience in romantic relationships has increased the last 3-4 decades.

Male-male friendships are notoriously unstable too, especially if formed after age ~25. This is affected by the presence or absence of romantic relationships.

If two single and unattached men become friends, often times the first one to form a romantic attachment drops the other one as a friend if the other one doesn't form one in reasonably close proximity. Single and unattached men generally do not form new friendships with married men. When single and unattached men are friends with married men, it is usually due to relationship formation prior to age 25, and likely from childhood/high school. Single but attached men can be versatile in friendships under the right conditions, as they can be friends with married men (though somewhat unstable) or single and unattached men.

Men who do not have deep social circles in their local geographies need to spend more time looking for romance and once achieving a relationship of significance, maintaining it, due to the effort that it took to achieve it and a desire not to repeat that process. This cuts into the amount of time that a male in that situation can devote to a friendship.

I'll also add that studies have demonstrated that married men also report high levels of loneliness, often on par with single males. Married men often starve pre-marriage friendships and the other married men that they meet through their wives are often friendships of convenience that often don't have the depth of a lot of the earlier in life friendships.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
5,353 posts, read 5,767,157 times
Reputation: 6561
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
I have expressed my perception numerous times that friendship is overrated. It is a time suck in a lot of cases.

With that said though, times do occur where being able to talk to someone in person or on the phone with someone who you semi-regularly see in person is helpful. Those who have no romantic partner have the greatest need for this interaction.

A long term romantic relationship or a marriage can mask a lot of friendship issues, particularly for men, who seem to suffer more from friendship issues than women. Given that most relationships are transient, the lack of friendship issue will eventually come to light. In non-transient relationships, there are plenty of relationships and marriages that are generally unpleasant but seem to be surviving on inertia. Some of those people would benefit from friends.

Middle aged single white men not in romantic relationships have a high suicide rate for a lot of reasons. Many middle aged white men had a nasty divorce than harmed them financially. If a middle aged single white man didn't marry, he'll often have baggage from past non-marital relationships and/or the pain of a massive amount of searing rejections. Neither of those are good. Also, middle aged, single and unattached, white men are usually "persona non-grata" in most social circles, even as transience in romantic relationships has increased the last 3-4 decades.

Male-male friendships are notoriously unstable too, especially if formed after age ~25. This is affected by the presence or absence of romantic relationships.

If two single and unattached men become friends, often times the first one to form a romantic attachment drops the other one as a friend if the other one doesn't form one in reasonably close proximity. Single and unattached men generally do not form new friendships with married men. When single and unattached men are friends with married men, it is usually due to relationship formation prior to age 25, and likely from childhood/high school. Single but attached men can be versatile in friendships under the right conditions, as they can be friends with married men (though somewhat unstable) or single and unattached men.

Men who do not have deep social circles in their local geographies need to spend more time looking for romance and once achieving a relationship of significance, maintaining it, due to the effort that it took to achieve it and a desire not to repeat that process. This cuts into the amount of time that a male in that situation can devote to a friendship.

I'll also add that studies have demonstrated that married men also report high levels of loneliness, often on par with single males. Married men often starve pre-marriage friendships and the other married men that they meet through their wives are often friendships of convenience that often don't have the depth of a lot of the earlier in life friendships.
Spot on. Thats exactly what its like. I've been on both sides (married with friends, but no depth), a persona non-grata due to being single, and the same with getting divorced and "our" friends choosing her. Just awful.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:28 AM
 
22,284 posts, read 21,588,549 times
Reputation: 54727
But Atlguy, you are a special case. You have a history of clinical depression, low self-esteem and suicidal ideation. That is not the norm and it most certainly has prevented you from having a normal social life and forming good lasting relationships.

Let's be real here. Getting a foreign wife is not going to change your brain chemistry or heal your trauma.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
5,353 posts, read 5,767,157 times
Reputation: 6561
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
But Atlguy, you are a special case. You have a history of clinical depression, low self-esteem and suicidal ideation. That is not the norm and it most certainly has prevented you from having a normal social life and forming good lasting relationships.

Let's be real here. Getting a foreign wife is not going to change your brain chemistry or heal your trauma.
Its wrong of you to focus on that, as you make it sound like its a permanent scar. It isn't. It was situational. Also, to imply depression is uncommon (or the person who suffers from it is unlovable) is insulting and naive. Furthermore, I've done a ton of personal growth work and you're mostly referring to several years ago. I'm not the same man I was then. Lastly, I'm not trying to get a woman to change my brain chemistry. That would be idiotic. Its more about living my best life.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:30 PM
 
22,284 posts, read 21,588,549 times
Reputation: 54727
You were complaining of depression just a few months ago. But glad to hear you're healthy now.

Everyone is lovable. Not everyone can form or sustain a lasting relationship. Best of luck.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:55 PM
 
5,427 posts, read 4,405,092 times
Reputation: 7252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39 View Post
Spot on. Thats exactly what its like. I've been on both sides (married with friends, but no depth), a persona non-grata due to being single, and the same with getting divorced and "our" friends choosing her. Just awful.
In most scenarios that I am aware of, women retain most of the friends in most divorces, especially when the friends are couples and you met as a couple. This isn't surprising.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:58 AM
 
12,098 posts, read 16,979,394 times
Reputation: 15736
In the case of OP, I hate to say it, but that's what happens.

My friends with kids, I expect them to give way more time to their kids than me, no question.

But I get maybe 2 to 4 days a year where I hang out with my best friend. And sometimes that days consists of an hour or two.

We used to hang out for entire weekends for the whole month.

Meanwhile, he spends 350 days a year with his kids. But his MIL lives with him, and she loves the kids, so he has a FT baby sitter. I mean, if I were in his situation, I'd work on a little more balance.

There's really nothing to be gained to spending THAT much extra time with your kids, even if you do prefer it, I think some balance to keep friendships is good.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:09 AM
 
12,098 posts, read 16,979,394 times
Reputation: 15736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39 View Post
Well yeah, I've communicated with a couple people from here. They're not local though, so not the same thing. No, there's nobody here I know well enough to open up to. Thats reserved mostly for therapy because I've lost touch with so many friends over the years. It sucks. I do have 2-3 friends here locally (I'm not from here), but thats about it in the 7 years I've lived here. It would theoretically be easier if I was married (different challenges, which I welcome), and thats my intention for this year. I'm going overseas in search for a wife in March. I don't need a wife to "complete" me, but to feel fulfilled I do. I know I have so much to offer and its not recognized where I live.
I think if anything a wife may make it harder to make friends.

My girlfriend doesn't always mesh with my friends. Like I said, my GF is also from a foreign country (but has been here a long time).

My best friend can talk to anybody about anything and will tend to steer the conversation towards what that person knows, and I'm the same way. She gets along with him.

But most of the other people I know steer the conversation towards stuff they know or their sense of humor. I can only imagine my friends from college and their endless forays into pop music and movies and liberal politics, and jeopardy style historical references. It'd be a nightmare for her.

People are difficult to befriend. They have very specific personalities and are not very down to Earth.
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