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My heart is always broken when I hear of a suicide. All I can do is wonder how the signs were missed, how loved ones could have helped if they'd have known.
I've moved beyond my own suicidal thoughts of decades back and have reached what I feel is a "safe" point. The point beyond which I feel the need to be done with it all. But I had to live through it all to get here. I had to develop my own coping mechanisms. Not everyone gets this far. Knowing what I know, I will never call anyone who commits suicide selfish.
Slightly graphic: A co-worker once revealed to me that she never spoke of her brother (called herself an only child) because he shot himself. She said "he took the chicken's way out." I asked her what she thought it must have been like to feel so alone that he didn't feel he could tell anyone that he was troubled. I told her to try sitting alone and desperate in her kitchen, loading the handgun, and pointing it at her face, then tell me who's the chicken. I told her there's a lot to be afraid of when looking down the barrel of a loaded gun. Even if, and maybe because, the gun is in your own hand. Mean? Maybe. But she took my point and stopped calling him a chicken.
That is perhaps true and perhaps not.
Since our understanding of who we are as Beings is extremelylimited, it is not certain that suicide will end the suffering.
Good point.
A friend had a near-death-experience, (NDE) where she encountered the spirit of a woman who had killed herself, who was eager to try to help the family she left behind, & pleaded for my friend to help. I've heard of other similar mentions of suicide's spiritual aftermath in NDEs.
BTW, when I've been depressed, reading NDEs have been really comforting.
I read that suicide kills more than war, & after losing a cousin, uncle & neighbor within this last year, to suicide, I'm feeling the need to help somehow. If anyone wants to discuss anything with me - just pm me - I'm open.
I've struggled with suicidal thoughts. Sometimes suicide & depression is self-centered & what saves many of us from it is someone depending on us.
Some have extremely difficult lives... like this woman living in a "poor" country - who's family arranged for her to marry a man who regularly physically & verbally abused her. Her husband took her away from her family to live with his family who also was abusive to her. Then, her only love, her one child died. She said, she didn't kill herself because she didn't believe in it, but it seemed apparant & understandable she'd considered it.
Everything we think is illusional. Some learn to handle this well, but others of us struggle.
Some may go from extreme illusions - we think we're either the absolute best... or we think we're the absolute worst.
We have coping methods, some healthier than others... music, exercise, writing, nature walks, hobbies, media, alcohol....
We must learn to cope - especially in how we interpret things, realizing that how we choose to think, affects how we feel.
Last edited by SuperSoul; 07-06-2011 at 02:39 PM..
"Wherever you go, there you are." I bet they are surprised when they "wake up" somewhere else in the same pain
I am also of the opinion that suicide is selfish . . . it's kind of infantile . . . "I am in pain, therefore I am not going to stay here anymore and everyone can just deal with my carcass and the loss of my life . . ." "F them," basically . . . that is selfish.
What would not be selfish is getting help of some kind, stabilizing, then volunteering to get the extreme focus off of themselves and their unhappiness . . . maybe some counseling about "acting as if you want to be here and your life is worthwhile . . ."
. . . also writing down those expectations that were dashed . . .what was it you expected that didn't happen? What else can you do (Plan B) if you can't "get your way" (whatever it is that is making you so unhappy you want to kill yourself).
In the moment it would be just coping, self-soothing . . . taking a bath, making a phone call, taking a nap, going to a movie . . .whatever . . . just getting out of the muck of "poor me."
People that see it as "selfish" don't understand how it feels to be totally desperate. I'm not going to diss anyone for it in any way. I understand the feelings people go through far to well. I find it very sad. Some pple just flip out, it may be a small thing that pushes them over the edge. I know how that feels too, luckily I snapped back over the thin line. But there are some that don't snap back over the line. Do you think this is what they wanted? I don't think so. Even the ones that plan it out, they just wanted things to get better, to have some hope again, to see some progress, for life to get better. People that are desperate and hanging on by a thread certainly are thinking about themselves. If one is on fire its hard not to think of yourself and how it feels. "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" that line always has made me hit the roof. When people suffer for many years with severe depression, some never finding a medicine that works, its far more than temporary. Situational things that can add to the burden and maybe temporary. Things don't always get better, we can hope and try the best we can, but seeing no progress, positive changes makes one lose hope over time. And if alone, that makes it worse still.
Unfortunately, you really get it. I can't rep you as I must spread the rep around. Well said.
"Wherever you go, there you are." I bet they are surprised when they "wake up" somewhere else in the same pain
I am also of the opinion that suicide is selfish . . . it's kind of infantile . . . "I am in pain, therefore I am not going to stay here anymore and everyone can just deal with my carcass and the loss of my life . . ." "F them," basically . . . that is selfish.
What would not be selfish is getting help of some kind, stabilizing, then volunteering to get the extreme focus off of themselves and their unhappiness . . . maybe some counseling about "acting as if you want to be here and your life is worthwhile . . ."
. . . also writing down those expectations that were dashed . . .what was it you expected that didn't happen? What else can you do (Plan B) if you can't "get your way" (whatever it is that is making you so unhappy you want to kill yourself).
In the moment it would be just coping, self-soothing . . . taking a bath, making a phone call, taking a nap, going to a movie . . .whatever . . . just getting out of the muck of "poor me."
What happens when you've done all those things and there is not one person to call except a crisis line? What happens when you've been to several psychiatrists, gone on more "cocktails" than you can count, seen more therapists than you can count and have been betrayed by everyone you thought you could trust? What do you do then?
What happens when sleep is your only reprieve (and what keeps you alive), when you've lost interest in everything, and your days are nothing more than a series of days like in the movie "groundhog day?" What happens when you spend every holiday alone, too embarrassed to admit it to everyone and you know that to volunteer will just make things worse (because you do that already on a regular basis). You seem to have so many answers, so what happens? What happens when you know no one cares if you live or die and you postpone your ending until after that one person who does care has passed on, so as to not hurt that person? What happens when you know attendance at your funeral will be zero. Is it ok with you to get all your affairs in order, make arrangements, have your will in place and then to end it all in the least messy way possible? Do any of these things ever cross your mind? I am sure they have crossed many a suicidal person's mind.
What happens when you've done all those things and there is not one person to call except a crisis line? What happens when you've been to several psychiatrists, gone on more "cocktails" than you can count, seen more therapists than you can count and have been betrayed by everyone you thought you could trust? What do you do then?
What happens when sleep is your only reprieve (and what keeps you
I don't mean this facetiously, but if sleep is the only refuge, then I would say sleep, sleep, sleep. Then wake up, take a shower, go to the beach, then find somewhere to volunteer . . .just help out in the kitchen of a homeless shelter . . .
If you have a physical problem, take vitamins, eat a healthy diet, give up smoking, drinking, basically detox your system . . .I know it sounds easier than it might feel . . . but the alternative is to just feel hopeless and give up.
Never give up!!! Go to YouTube and listen to inspirational videos - search on "sound healing," or "EFT" (Emotional Freedom Technique - have you tried it? It is amazing and can change your mood for the better in minutes and it's free!), get acupuncture, have a massage, get a new job, whatever . . . do something different . . . realize you are wallowing . . . I understand what it is like to "be in the pit" - I have been there . . . it is kind of like a spell once you get in there - but before you slip into the pit again, make a list of things to do once your mood is trending downwards . . .have you heard of Rescue Remedy or tried other flower essences? They also work quickly.
There are just so many tools these days . . .in a worse-case, when you are just beside yourself, cry, sob, pet your dog or cat, take a bath, go to sleep, pray like crazy, ask for help, call a crisis line if you have to . . .but don't ever seriously consider suicide. It is one thing to want to die and another to want to kill yourself. I see it as very passive aggressive - acting out in rage and grief.
What happens when you've done all those things and there is not one person to call except a crisis line? What happens when you've been to several psychiatrists, gone on more "cocktails" than you can count, seen more therapists than you can count and have been betrayed by everyone you thought you could trust? What do you do then?
What happens when sleep is your only reprieve (and what keeps you alive), when you've lost interest in everything, and your days are nothing more than a series of days like in the movie "groundhog day?" What happens when you spend every holiday alone, too embarrassed to admit it to everyone and you know that to volunteer will just make things worse (because you do that already on a regular basis). You seem to have so many answers, so what happens? What happens when you know no one cares if you live or die and you postpone your ending until after that one person who does care has passed on, so as to not hurt that person? What happens when you know attendance at your funeral will be zero. Is it ok with you to get all your affairs in order, make arrangements, have your will in place and then to end it all in the least messy way possible? Do any of these things ever cross your mind? I am sure they have crossed many a suicidal person's mind.
I am sorry. I don't mean to be glib. Why is it that you cannot make things better do you think?
On volunteering on holidays . . . does that not make you feel like you are doing something worthwhile? Why aren't all the people in the homeless shelter suicidal?
Have you ever thought, "What if I offed myself and woke up on the other side the same me with the same feelings?"
How could you not think that your life has meaning? I understand the pain and how debilitating it can be but there has to be SOMETHING that you enjoy that makes life worthwhile. Do you have a garden? A pet? A hobby? What do you enjoy doing?
I don't mean this facetiously, but if sleep is the only refuge, then I would say sleep, sleep, sleep. Then wake up, take a shower, go to the beach, then find somewhere to volunteer . . .just help out in the kitchen of a homeless shelter . . .
What if there is no beach to go to and that is your only solace? What if you've already volunteered at a homeless shelter and are still suicidal? What if you've volunteered at several places and feel the same?
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If you have a physical problem, take vitamins, eat a healthy diet, give up smoking, drinking, basically detox your system . . .I know it sounds easier than it might feel . . . but the alternative is to just feel hopeless and give up.
What you don't understand is that some people self medicate with substances and that is what keeps them alive. I can tell you of several stories in AA where people went off their meds or became so depressed they killed themselves. What if you don't even have the will to shower, let alone take vitamins and eat healthy? What if all you can do is to pop a TV dinner in the microwave?
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Never give up!!! Go to YouTube and listen to inspirational videos - search on "sound healing," or "EFT" (Emotional Freedom Technique - have you tried it? It is amazing and can change your mood for the better in minutes and it's free!), get acupuncture, have a massage, get a new job, whatever . . . do something different . . . realize you are wallowing . . . I understand what it is like to "be in the pit" - I have been there . . . it is kind of like a spell once you get in there - but before you slip into the pit again, make a list of things to do once your mood is trending downwards . . .have you heard of Rescue Remedy or tried other flower essences? They also work quickly.
Yeah, I know that sounds good and I find the tapping thing ridiculous, having done it myself. And no one is wallowing. Some are born with a lower baseline of neurotransmitters than others, so stop being offensive with that line. And please define the abyss for me. That will tell me if you've been there or not.
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There are just so many tools these days . . .in a worse-case, when you are just beside yourself, cry, sob, pet your dog or cat, take a bath, go to sleep, pray like crazy, ask for help, call a crisis line if you have to . . .but don't ever seriously consider suicide. It is one thing to want to die and another to want to kill yourself. I see it as very passive aggressive - acting out in rage and grief.
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I see it as no such thing. I took a vow I would never commit suicide while my parents are alive and I intend to uphold that. My mom is truly the only person who cares about me. Once she passes on, all bets are off. I won't be missed. Dad died last year so mom is all I have left.
And a lifetime of depression isn't passive-aggressive or acting out in rage or grief. It's putting an end to a lifetime of misery for some people.
I am sorry. I don't mean to be glib. Why is it that you cannot make things better do you think?
On volunteering on holidays . . . does that not make you feel like you are doing something worthwhile? Why aren't all the people in the homeless shelter suicidal?
Have you ever thought, "What if I offed myself and woke up on the other side the same me with the same feelings?"
How could you not think that your life has meaning? I understand the pain and how debilitating it can be but there has to be SOMETHING that you enjoy that makes life worthwhile. Do you have a garden? A pet? A hobby? What do you enjoy doing?
i don't know if you ever experienced true clinical depression. from this statement it doesn't seem like it. just a simple wikipedia search i found this:
A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, hopelessness, and self-hatred.[7] In severe cases, depressed people may have symptoms of psychosis.
i've experienced it, so i know that everything you're saying to do is moot when you're talking to someone that is actually clinically depressed.
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