The mind of a suicidal person (sleep, vitamins, system, emotional)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am sorry. I don't mean to be glib. Why is it that you cannot make things better do you think?
On volunteering on holidays . . . does that not make you feel like you are doing something worthwhile? Why aren't all the people in the homeless shelter suicidal?
Have you ever thought, "What if I offed myself and woke up on the other side the same me with the same feelings?"
How could you not think that your life has meaning? I understand the pain and how debilitating it can be but there has to be SOMETHING that you enjoy that makes life worthwhile. Do you have a garden? A pet? A hobby? What do you enjoy doing?
Mostly likely because I am 51 and been fighting this battle since 14. I know nothing else.
I've done the volunteering on holidays and on regular days. I have felt better on the regular days. Oh, and how do you know what the people feel like in the homeless shelter? I volunteered there and even I can't tell you that.
No, I believe we just move on to another plane of existance.
When you're truly clinically depressed life doesn't have meaning. When truly depressed you don't enjoy doing anything. Just getting up and getting through another day is a job in and of itself.
And this is what drives people to suicide. They just see no more hope and at times they have exhausted every resource available to them. If they are in a position to know that no one cares, it is not such an irrational decision.
I heard Wayne Dyer on YouTube I think (or read it, can recall which) . . . anyway, he said, there is no such tangible thing as clinical depression - it is not a discreet "thing" that you can taste, touch, smell or measure.
I believe it is a term that has been coined to capture a series of negative feelings/emotions . . . there has to be a reason for it . . . I personally don't believe that it is a physical problem. I agree with Wayne Dyer that it is a spiritual problem.
Thomas Moore has a chapter entitled "Depression" in his book "Care of the Soul" that gives a really good spin on the subject . . .
It is not a hopeless condition . . . you JUST have to find out what the issue is, what you like to do, and detox your body (I said "just" because I know it can seem overwhelming) . . . but as they say in 12 step programs . . .one day or one step at a time . . .
But you have to make the effort to do something different.
it is too bad you think tapping is "ridiculous." It moves stagnant energy and allows negative moods to dissipate - like that - it is very powerful. I have to question someone's judgment who would just slough a powerful healing remedy off as "ridiculous" and at the same time stay stuck in the same negative pattern. It is very much playing the role of victim . . .
I am not going to describe the abyss for you. I am not Sylvia Plath and I don't want to revisit that place, even in my mind. I know it is painful. But what is the pain from? Heal that core problem . . . work on that . . .journal about it, dream journal . . . ask for dreams that would be helpful . . .
On the issue of waiting till your mother dies . . . what if it turns out your mother will know no matter what and would be hurt by your actions . . . would that deter you? Hopefully you have some intrinsic reason for living. How can you make your life meaningful? Can you find small pleasures in gardening (I don't care what any article says about "depression") . . .can you find one enjoyable thing to do? Get a pedicure? Go to the park? Go to the library, a bookstore, "pay it forward" (help someone anonymously) - go to an old folks home and visit and ask about their lives and the stories they have to tell - ask them for advice - talk about depressing - at least you aren't in an old folks home.
What else do you have to be grateful for?
Ask angels for guidance - pray to spiritual masters or whomever you pray to and ask for guidance . . .
If a person is Hell-bent on defending themselves and their "condition," if they refuse to do anything different . . .then it really is a choice to stay in the pit. And you have to ask yourself why that is preferable to doing things differently and taking on faith, that maybe you could improve and your life could be worthwhile, one day at a time.
I heard Wayne Dyer on YouTube I think (or read it, can recall which) . . . anyway, he said, there is no such tangible thing as clinical depression - it is not a discreet "thing" that you can taste, touch, smell or measure.
I believe it is a term that has been coined to capture a series of negative feelings/emotions . . . there has to be a reason for it . . . I personally don't believe that it is a physical problem. I agree with Wayne Dyer that it is a spiritual problem.
Thomas Moore has a chapter entitled "Depression" in his book "Care of the Soul" that gives a really good spin on the subject . . .
It is not a hopeless condition . . . you JUST have to find out what the issue is, what you like to do, and detox your body (I said "just" because I know it can seem overwhelming) . . . but as they say in 12 step programs . . .one day or one step at a time . . .
But you have to make the effort to do something different.
it is too bad you think tapping is "ridiculous." It moves stagnant energy and allows negative moods to dissipate - like that - it is very powerful. I have to question someone's judgment who would just slough a powerful healing remedy off as "ridiculous" and at the same time stay stuck in the same negative pattern. It is very much playing the role of victim . . .
I am not going to describe the abyss for you. I am not Sylvia Plath and I don't want to revisit that place, even in my mind. I know it is painful. But what is the pain from? Heal that core problem . . . work on that . . .journal about it, dream journal . . . ask for dreams that would be helpful . . .
On the issue of waiting till your mother dies . . . what if it turns out your mother will know no matter what and would be hurt by your actions . . . would that deter you? Hopefully you have some intrinsic reason for living. How can you make your life meaningful? Can you find small pleasures in gardening (I don't care what any article says about "depression") . . .can you find one enjoyable thing to do? Get a pedicure? Go to the park? Go to the library, a bookstore, "pay it forward" (help someone anonymously) - go to an old folks home and visit and ask about their lives and the stories they have to tell - ask them for advice - talk about depressing - at least you aren't in an old folks home.
What else do you have to be grateful for?
Ask angels for guidance - pray to spiritual masters or whomever you pray to and ask for guidance . . .
What do they tell you on crisis lines?
Wayne Dyer is a rich guy with a house in HI who does specials on PBS. He is not a Dr, rather a psychologist. He makes big money pushing his brand of spiritual stuff. Much like a Tony Robbins guru and I just threw a whole set of his CD tapes in the trash that I paid $135 for. Hey, if this stuff works for some people more power to them, but it's not the solution for me and countless others. I suggest you read The Noonday Demon or Darkness Visible if you want to understand all of this better.
As to the tapping, I have already done that and unless you are going to tell me it raises neurotransmitter levels, I say it's ridiculous. Depression is an illness - an illness that can kill and to minimize it and base it on Wayne Dyer's teachings and other (what I call woo woo) stuff is a true insult to any person who has been clinically depressed. And I do recall you saying the same stuff in that thread entitled "Is mental illness really real (or maybe it was is depression and anxiety really real). You seemed to be of the opinion that none of this is real. For someone who does not want to revisit the "abyss" sounds to me like you've never been in the abyss or you'd be able to define just what the abyss is. I asked my own Dr. if he knew what it was and he said no, but then he's never been clinically depressed!
I cannot expect you to understand any of this, as I don't really think you've ever been there. Those of us who have or who live there get it. And it's been shown over and over that medication combined with psychotherapy yields the best results. Have you ever picked up a copy of the DSM IV? How do you explain all of what is in that book away?
What you're really doing is shaming people who have suffered enough. I know you are trying to be helpful, but it only makes depressed people feel worse when they hear "it's your fault and snap out of it."
I am not looking for a spiritual solution to a medical problem. That is on a par with the faith healing stuff in AA. If alcoholism is a disease as they claim, why is it treated with religion? They don't treat other diseases with religion.
As to what they tell you on crisis lines? Have you ever phoned one? They tell you to seek medical help and to see a therapist. They certainly do not say things like "consult your spiritual master." They are professionals who have been trained to know what they are talking about.
Last edited by mistygrl092; 07-07-2011 at 06:32 AM..
Reason: add thoughts
Wayne Dyer is a rich guy with a house in HI who does specials on PBS. He is not a Dr, rather a psychologist. He makes big money pushing his brand of spiritual stuff. Much like a Tony Robbins guru and I just threw a whole set of his CD tapes in the trash that I paid $135 for. Hey, if this stuff works for some people more power to them, but it's not the solution for me and countless others. I suggest you read The Noonday Demon or Darkness Visible if you want to understand all of this better.
As to the tapping, I have already done that and unless you are going to tell me it raises neurotransmitter levels, I say it's ridiculous. Depression is an illness - an illness that can kill and to minimize it and base it on Wayne Dyer's teachings and other (what I call woo woo) stuff is a true insult to any person who has been clinically depressed. And I do recall you saying the same stuff in that thread entitled "Is mental illness really real (or maybe it was is depression and anxiety really real). You seemed to be of the opinion that none of this is real. For someone who does not want to revisit the "abyss" sounds to me like you've never been in the abyss or you'd be able to define just what the abyss is. I asked my own Dr. if he knew what it was and he said no, but then he's never been clinically depressed!
I cannot expect you to understand any of this, as I don't really think you've ever been there. Those of us who have or who live there get it. And it's been shown over and over that medication combined with psychotherapy yields the best results. Have you ever picked up a copy of the DSM IV? How do you explain all of what is in that book away?
What you're really doing is shaming people who have suffered enough. I know you are trying to be helpful, but it only makes depressed people feel worse when they hear "it's your fault and snap out of it."
I am not looking for a spiritual solution to a medical problem. That is on a par with the faith healing stuff in AA. If alcoholism is a disease as they claim, why is it treated with religion? They don't treat other diseases with religion.
As to what they tell you on crisis lines? Have you ever phoned one? They tell you to seek medical help and to see a therapist. They certainly do not say things like "consult your spiritual master." They are professionals who have been trained to know what they are talking about.
Well, okay. Good luck with that line of thinking. I HATE to quote Dr. Phil, but "How is that workin' for ya?"
Anyway, sincerely, good luck to you. I cannot change anyone's mind about anything. You're right. I was trying to help. I offered resources that I think will help - take it or leave it.
Well, okay. Good luck with that line of thinking. I HATE to quote Dr. Phil, but "How is that workin' for ya?"
Anyway, sincerely, good luck to you. I cannot change anyone's mind about anything. You're right. I was trying to help. I offered resources that I think will help - take it or leave it.
Better than the solutions you offered. But thanks for the well wishes. I think I'll leave it and stick with real Drs and therapists.
Oh, and Dr. Phil is just another pop psychologist too. I don't put much stock in them, but they sure do rake in the money.
Do you honestly think people that have had this for years have not tried everything out there, conventional and unconventional? Do think people really want to feel bad or want to end their life? You can no more flip a switch to this as you can any physical ailment. If you want to be helpful, show some respect to people here. This is much different from temporary situational depression people sometimes get. When something like a pedicure or a walk in the park, will whisk away the blues. You will find that pple with serious depression often put their problems aside to help others. We are not all so wrapped up in ourselves we don't have compassion for others. I've taken in stray animals for more than 25 years, "normal" people threw away like an empty happy meal. So I know a little bit about giving. I'm still looking for an answer, some days I feel like giving up, some minutes I feel I can't stand it anymore. There are quite a few of us like this, we press on, and keep trying, but we do understand the feelings that come with suicidal thoughts. We don't put down people for the feelings they have, or call them names. Some pple here have other medical problems as well, you might not realize that either. You will find people are generally still thankful for some things in their lives, even if everything sucks now and they are alone. I find that most of the entire world is one big selfish cesspool of people that are so engrossed in their own meh-ness, and material accumulations they think of nothing that might tarnish their own mood. It's not their problem after all, its all about pleasing themselves. So to say we are selfish is laughable when you take a good look at the world today. It's sad in 2011, that there is still a stigma attached to mental health issues and that there is still limited understanding in the minds of many. You might actually learn something here, if you took the time.
Do you honestly think people that have had this for years have not tried everything out there, conventional and unconventional? Do think people really want to feel bad or want to end their life? You can no more flip a switch to this as you can any physical ailment. If you want to be helpful, show some respect to people here. This is much different from temporary situational depression people sometimes get. When something like a pedicure or a walk in the park, will whisk away the blues. You will find that pple with serious depression often put their problems aside to help others. We are not all so wrapped up in ourselves we don't have compassion for others. I've taken in stray animals for more than 25 years, "normal" people threw away like an empty happy meal. So I know a little bit about giving. I'm still looking for an answer, some days I feel like giving up, some minutes I feel I can't stand it anymore. There are quite a few of us like this, we press on, and keep trying, but we do understand the feelings that come with suicidal thoughts. We don't put down people for the feelings they have, or call them names. Some pple here have other medical problems as well, you might not realize that either. You will find people are generally still thankful for some things in their lives, even if everything sucks now and they are alone. I find that most of the entire world is one big selfish cesspool of people that are so engrossed in their own meh-ness, and material accumulations they think of nothing that might tarnish their own mood. It's not their problem after all, its all about pleasing themselves. So to say we are selfish is laughable when you take a good look at the world today. It's sad in 2011, that there is still a stigma attached to mental health issues and that there is still limited understanding in the minds of many. You might actually learn something here, if you took the time.
Who called anyone names?
I don't doubt that you are suffering . . . sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees . . . while you are in the muck and mire, it seems impossible to get out . . . BUT if you were open to trying something different, you might be able to find your way out.
WHY do you think you are so depressed?
It seems to me that people are super ATTACHED to being depressed. There must be some pay-off. I see this as a victim archetype (see Carolyn Myss).
I am not here to argue with you. You will get a lot of support for labeling yourself as "sick" and medicating yourself. I was just trying to offer a different perspective.
I know how painful depression can be - a couple of people have said, in essence, "You can't possibly know how dark my feelings are and how unique my depression is."
I tried to offer the view that perhaps it is a "spiritual illness" - there are so many different modalities out there - the pedicure was just to offer a bandaid to make you feel better in the moment - if you can string together some pleasant moments, then you might be able to get yourself to a place where you want to be healthy and will adopt practices (like detoxing from drugs and alcohol, eating a healthy diet, getting out in nature, adopting a spiritual practice, getting into counseling, etc.) that might actually help you.
It sounds like you have thrown up your hands and said, "I am hopeless." And you may believe that, but "believing" it is a choice - it is a story you are telling yourself - albeit a scary, sad story.
I don't doubt that you are suffering . . . sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees . . . while you are in the muck and mire, it seems impossible to get out . . . BUT if you were open to trying something different, you might be able to find your way out.
WHY do you think you are so depressed?
It seems to me that people are super ATTACHED to being depressed. There must be some pay-off. I see this as a victim archetype (see Carolyn Myss).
I am not here to argue with you. You will get a lot of support for labeling yourself as "sick" and medicating yourself. I was just trying to offer a different perspective.
I know how painful depression can be - a couple of people have said, in essence, "You can't possibly know how dark my feelings are and how unique my depression is."
I tried to offer the view that perhaps it is a "spiritual illness" - there are so many different modalities out there - the pedicure was just to offer a bandaid to make you feel better in the moment - if you can string together some pleasant moments, then you might be able to get yourself to a place where you want to be healthy and will adopt practices (like detoxing from drugs and alcohol, eating a healthy diet, getting out in nature, adopting a spiritual practice, getting into counseling, etc.) that might actually help you.
It sounds like you have thrown up your hands and said, "I am hopeless." And you may believe that, but "believing" it is a choice - it is a story you are telling yourself - albeit a scary, sad story.
you remind me of my mother, who adamantly denied that i had a problem. THIS ONLY MAKES IT WORSE!
there are ways out of it, but it requires good drs and good friends that understand the situation. if you are trying to help someone by telling them this, you aren't. you are only making the situation worse.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.