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Throughout the course of our marriage, he would routinely (every few months) sit me down for "the talk": he shouldn't have married me, I was crazy, everyone hated me, even my family and friends hated me, I had run out and "got myself pregnant" to tie him down. What were we doing, why were we married? I was mentally ill and "everyone knew it".
When this was over, we would wake up the next morning and he was a new man - happy, relieved! "Who wants to go out for breakfast this morning?" etc. I knew I had to get out, but suddenly things were OK again until it happened again.
So finally when our daughter was 5 he sat me down and said he was taking a retirement package, selling our home (which was in his name), and finding a retirement place that fit "his criteria". It had to be on the coast and near HIS FAMILY. He didn't want to do the "playgroup/PTA thing" ugh. He just wanted to be in his fishing hole.
I finally asked if I could relocate with our child since he was relocating (and the metro area where we were living was/is one of the most expensive in the country).
So I relocated (2007) and he retired and put his house on the market, and the recession hit, and the value of his home crashed, and he couldn't sell it. Then last year he decided to take all of this to court. We spent last summer doing a custody evaluation.
When the results came out I was flabbergasted: they claimed that I had "impulsively and unilaterally" moved away and I should be forced to move back. I guess he forgot to tell them that he had been trying to sell his house, that he initiated the separation, that the relocation was 9 months of mediation, family therapy, couples therapy, etc.
There was a key moment with this (current) therapist I am talking about here a few months ago. He denied 10 times that he had been trying to sell his house. Then he said "Ohhh, you mean back then." The therapist said "how long has it been since you've been trying to sell your house?" He said "a year".
So I guess, since his plans were derailed by the economy, that it's OK to alter what happened, to change the facts about how we separated. He has the piece of paper from the custody evaluation saying I "impulsively and unilaterally" moved away, so he's running with it. I now have 100 letters saying it isn't true, as well as his admission in front of this therapist, if that counts for anything.
Who the heck was your attorney?
I got one who was advertised and known as the meanest SOB who walked, told him I had no money, and set up a payment plan. Worth every dime, BTW.
Water under the bridge, maybe, since you have already been found as a flighty lil irresponsible thang who can't control your impulses... thanks to Mr. Manipulation.
I'd look into getting some proof about his machinations - maybe where/when the house was up for sale; things on the internet last forever, you know! -and having the topic revisited - with an S*O*B* of an attorney who is paid to cutthroat.
No need to roll over and play dead -unless you already are. Even the worm can turn...
I was doing well in court until the custody evaluation came out. They, um, forgot to talk to the child's therapist, doctors, teachers, any of my collateral contacts. They took her therapy records from the dad but the therapist has since testified that when she released those records, she had removed references to him "for the protection of her client, per the policy of her institution". Oops.
They forgot to ask for my perspective on the move, if I had any documentation. They forgot to review testimony. They forgot to get records, or wait for records. Once it came out I tried to correct it and was again seen as a crazy person. You don't "correct" a custody evaluation. They are done. They basically just endorsed his version of events - he is mr. stable guy, into routine and structure.
I have been told that the outcry has been unprecedented. If it comes to it, there can be a hearing and then the evaluation is either accepted or not.
So my attorney (honestly, the best) says I just have to be the most cooperative parent in the world to get out from under the cloud of the evaluation. The therapist I am talking about here is really crucial - will she say that he takes no responsibility or will she say he's trying so hard to have time with his child and doing everything she asks? (She's into "healing" and doesn't like court things, so she says she's just working on a plan "for the future").
Did I mention our daughter is a straight A student, a champion. (That's also where my attorney wants to go on this).
But yes, I have since collected all of this documentation such as records that his house has been on the market, etc. and he loves this idea of making us move back, even though he still is trying to sell the house and move away. I guess he forgot about that. It's an unprecedented mess.
I was doing well in court until the custody evaluation came out. They, um, forgot to talk to the child's therapist, doctors, teachers, any of my collateral contacts. They took her therapy records from the dad but the therapist has since testified that when she released those records, she had removed references to him "for the protection of her client, per the policy of her institution". Oops.
They forgot to ask for my perspective on the move, if I had any documentation. They forgot to review testimony. They forgot to get records, or wait for records. Once it came out I tried to correct it and was again seen as a crazy person. You don't "correct" a custody evaluation. They are done. They basically just endorsed his version of events - he is mr. stable guy, into routine and structure.
I have been told that the outcry has been unprecedented. If it comes to it, there can be a hearing and then the evaluation is either accepted or not.
So my attorney (honestly, the best) says I just have to be the most cooperative parent in the world to get out from under the cloud of the evaluation. The therapist I am talking about here is really crucial - will she say that he takes no responsibility or will she say he's trying so hard to have time with his child and doing everything she asks? (She's into "healing" and doesn't like court things, so she says she's just working on a plan "for the future").
Did I mention our daughter is a straight A student, a champion. (That's also where my attorney wants to go on this).
But yes, I have since collected all of this documentation such as records that his house has been on the market, etc. and he loves this idea of making us move back, even though he still is trying to sell the house and move away. I guess he forgot about that. It's an unprecedented mess.
No offense OP......I have had two experiences with attorneys in a parenting situation. One recommended cooperation and being the nice guy, the other was a cutthroat jerk. Had I stuck with Mr Nice Guy, I cannot imagine the end result. I ended up owing the cutthroat jerk a LOT of money but it was worth every last dime and all the payments I had to make.
My ex has a disease where excessive alcohol consumption could literally kill him. He drinks to excess daily.....often to the point of blacking out. I don't know how he has managed to live as long as he has other than only the good die young. Him having even minimal visitation rights was a living nightmare.
FF to today, our daughter is 21 and will graduate from college later this year. She and her father have a minimal relationship (mostly via phone and a one time a year family event with his relatives) and he helps her out somewhat with
money while she's in school. He still talks about me, and to our daughter, as though we divorced last week.....yet I've been remarried for 17 years. He often tells her to drop out of college because he knows it would upset me. He still talks about "all that child support" he had to pay me.....although he hasn't had to make one payment in 4 years and he does not pay
for any of her college expenses. When my dad died last year, he told her that it's too bad he couldn't have put my dad in the ground himself. Of course he hates her grandfather because my dad hated him for everything he put us through.
I could go on and on. The point is, if these type of people change (which I seriously doubt), they likely only get worse. My daughter feels sorry for him but she doesn't like him at all. She avoids his calls and him as much as possible. She's had to go to counseling and a lot of it to get where she is now. He, however, is a pathetic waste of oxygen. I've heard through one of his relatives he may have early onset dementia due to the alcoholism. His relatives have little to none to do with him.
My ex may not have the exact same issues as your ex but what they share is an abusive personality. Without extensive help
they are willing to go through and be completely cooperative, I cannot imagine what in the world might help these people. I'm no psychiatrist but I'd be willing to bet many diagnoses could be applied to my ex. I would even consider he could be a sociopath....not a serial killer type, just completely without care or concern for anyone else.
If I were in your shoes, I would get the meanest, sharpest family law attorney I could find. Attorneys on their game can get custody evaluations and the like thrown out. Yes, starting over may cost a LOT of money but it's well worth it. I don't know you or your family but IMO, your ex is never going to change unless he endures a head injury which changes his personality
for the better . Not just trying to be funny....I have an uncle who forgot he once drank like a fish prior to a very bad work-related accident....although I'm sure this isn't common.
I wish you the best of luck as this is not an easy situation, not by a long shot.
I had a different lawyer before the evaluation, more expensive, thought to be the best and most aggressive in town. After the evaluation came out he looked at me like I was a sociopath and then dropped my case. (We had been working together for a year, so I wish he had believed me when I told him it was wrong).
This attorney actually beat the previous attorney in HIS divorce and she's never lost a case, but she's in "settle" mode.
There aren't really any other options in town; part of my problem is that his attorney seems to be working on this full time. They have all of the surveillance (I get things in the mail about background checks; they have all of my medical records, credit reports, bank statements, mortgage statements, everything). Maybe my attorneys would do more if I had a big budget? But the one now is definitely tops.
I wanted to clarify ... when he said that I am 100% to blame and that I concocted things, these related to our daughter ...
- he roughed me up in front of our daughter when she was in kindergarten (it was widely discussed on city-data, although I think there used to be some different category?) He says I "concocted" the situation by leaving her without her shoes, thus forcing him to bring her to where I was during their visit, thus making her want to stay with me, thus who can blame him for getting angry and violent? Even the part about the shoes is untrue.
- during one of our visits, she was inconsolable and kept calling me in tears while I was at work. At one point she said .. "he says .. he doesn't know why he has to pay you all that money every month for me ...". I was at work with my boss in the same room so I would just say things like "I love you" and "hang in there".
There were also a dozen other things that same day, but that one seemed to stick with her. And she was not old enough to know that the child support check was "monthly" even though he mails it to her with a note "please give this check to your mother" (ugh). He also says he doesn't remember saying this, he does remember complaining about money to her, but not about the [child support/monthly check]. So I guess that didn't happen either since he doesn't remember it. Apparently I concocted that as well.
So the question is: if he hasn't accepted even 1% of responsibility for anything that has happened in the past, and if you believe me, he has a slippery relationship with facts, then can things move forward in a positive way? What if my daughter describes some situation, will he just say I made it up, or she made it up, or I encouraged her to say it?
In each of these stories and anecdotes with this guy, there's always the moment (and it doesn't take a lot), when he blows and the situation gets out of control. And yet, at that same moment, there is an opportunity to just work things out.
Your daughter will figure things out on her own. Believe me, she will. I threw mine out when my daughter was 8, and practically bit off my tongue to prevent myself from saying what I wanted to say about her father. He did the same types of things: trying to send "messages" through her. I told her it was not her problem or her concern.
Yes, they live in an alternate reality. I'm sure my ex, who insists that my mother called the police on him just because she is this vindictive woman who WANTED to ruin our marriage (in reality she's a religious woman who doesn't really like divorce), conveniently does not remember saying "I AM GOING TO TAKE THAT F***ING KID AND DISAPPEAR AND YOU WILL NEVER SEE HER AGAIN", which is what got him escorted out the door by the boys in blue.
In the early days after the divorce, I asked him for the child support money when he came to visit our daughter because I really needed it FOR HER, for school clothes and whatnot. We couldn't even have a rational conversation about this. He just accused me of trying to make his life miserable and jumped in the car and left. I remember saying to my therapist, "Why couldn't we just have a logical, adult conversation?" The therapist said, "Could you ever have a logical, adult conversation BEFORE? Why do you keep expecting him to be different?" That hit home.
It is really tough, I know. Hang in there, you will come out strong in the end. Right now it just seems as if a timely death would solve it all, doesn't it? Hehehe. But, you will become stronger, he will stay the same, and your daughter will survive and thrive and grow up learning how to work around a difficult person.
No offense OP......I have had two experiences with attorneys in a parenting situation. One recommended cooperation and being the nice guy, the other was a cutthroat jerk. Had I stuck with Mr Nice Guy, I cannot imagine the end result. I ended up owing the cutthroat jerk a LOT of money but it was worth every last dime and all the payments I had to make.
My ex has a disease where excessive alcohol consumption could literally kill him. He drinks to excess daily.....often to the point of blacking out. I don't know how he has managed to live as long as he has other than only the good die young. Him having even minimal visitation rights was a living nightmare.
FF to today, our daughter is 21 and will graduate from college later this year. She and her father have a minimal relationship (mostly via phone and a one time a year family event with his relatives) and he helps her out somewhat with
money while she's in school. He still talks about me, and to our daughter, as though we divorced last week.....yet I've been remarried for 17 years. He often tells her to drop out of college because he knows it would upset me. He still talks about "all that child support" he had to pay me.....although he hasn't had to make one payment in 4 years and he does not pay
for any of her college expenses. When my dad died last year, he told her that it's too bad he couldn't have put my dad in the ground himself. Of course he hates her grandfather because my dad hated him for everything he put us through.
I could go on and on. The point is, if these type of people change (which I seriously doubt), they likely only get worse. My daughter feels sorry for him but she doesn't like him at all. She avoids his calls and him as much as possible. She's had to go to counseling and a lot of it to get where she is now. He, however, is a pathetic waste of oxygen. I've heard through one of his relatives he may have early onset dementia due to the alcoholism. His relatives have little to none to do with him.
My ex may not have the exact same issues as your ex but what they share is an abusive personality. Without extensive help
they are willing to go through and be completely cooperative, I cannot imagine what in the world might help these people. I'm no psychiatrist but I'd be willing to bet many diagnoses could be applied to my ex. I would even consider he could be a sociopath....not a serial killer type, just completely without care or concern for anyone else.
If I were in your shoes, I would get the meanest, sharpest family law attorney I could find. Attorneys on their game can get custody evaluations and the like thrown out. Yes, starting over may cost a LOT of money but it's well worth it. I don't know you or your family but IMO, your ex is never going to change unless he endures a head injury which changes his personality
for the better . Not just trying to be funny....I have an uncle who forgot he once drank like a fish prior to a very bad work-related accident....although I'm sure this isn't common.
I wish you the best of luck as this is not an easy situation, not by a long shot.
Ugh. These guys all sound like the same person, don't they?
Well, in our case, it's because they are alcoholics. Alkies basically ARE all the same person.
Ugh. These guys all sound like the same person, don't they?
Well, in our case, it's because they are alcoholics. Alkies basically ARE all the same person.
That's for sure....I was raised around plenty of them. Three of my four grandparents, my dad later in life, my mom was/is a drug addict, and relatives going quite a ways back, many of them drunks. My dad died last year with cirrhosis, both kidneys failing/needing dialysis, and a heart condition greatly exacerbated by his alcoholism (fifth or more of whiskey a day from 2010 until he died from a major heart attack late 2011). Three of his four remaining siblings are alcoholics. Talking to one of them is just like talking to the other and as a result, I spend minimal time around them.
It's no surprise I ended up with an alcoholic, first husband anyway. I have no use for that man and they really are the same, sick person!
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. Not just trying to be funny....I have an uncle who forgot he once drank like a fish prior to a very bad work-related accident....although I'm sure this isn't common.
