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Old 05-10-2012, 07:06 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,855,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
But there's also a lot of people I think who do want to put in the work, but their doctors don't. The doctors get paid just as much for a ten minute appointment to write a new script as they do a 30 minute...but with the 10 minute check in they can fit in three times the patients and get paid three times as much. I don't think many patients are even offered anything other then meds.
Well, this is when it's important to see your therapist more than your Dr - plus it's a LOT less expensive. I have a great Dr. but of course he pushes pills. My therapist, OTOH, gets that no amount of pills will fix certain situations.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,207,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
But there's also a lot of people I think who do want to put in the work, but their doctors don't. The doctors get paid just as much for a ten minute appointment to write a new script as they do a 30 minute...but with the 10 minute check in they can fit in three times the patients and get paid three times as much. I don't think many patients are even offered anything other then meds.
Small systems tend to have less money but also less patients. So maybe they do a little better on the balance with large county systems. Los Angeles county give out med for six months. Unless you batter down the door insisting you need to see someone, you get two visits a year. All the can do is pills. They have therapists, but you have to be willing to fight for the right... and most who really need them just aren't there.

The system in Riverside while I lived there went from bad, with regional clinics who were too busy, to worse, with two for the whole county, one a satalite clinic in the desert area. Not twenty minutes early for your appointment they might decide you missed it and make you come in and sit and wait for 'an opening' tomorrow. Therapists? there weren't any. I saw one briefly with them, then another, and they didn't replace her. They stayed long enough to get work experence of say six months and went onto better paying positions.

So its easier to just make sure the patient is nicely sedated and calm and hopefully won't have a problem since there isn't anyone to help.

What did help me was the DBSA (depressive and bipolar association) which is 'self help' with confidentality. What you say unless its a sucide stays there. We also socialized. They have a website you can find the local chapter. Much discussion was about problems with meds and the unwillingness of doctors to listen, or the too frequent changes where they never had a chance to work.

What also helped was that they canceled appointments as long as you had refills. They messed up once and left me high and dry since it had been too long since appointements. I started cutting back by two pills a week after that. and built up an emergency supply, and discovered how much better I felt with less. A doctor could have figured this out but they didn't have more than my ten minutes.

What helped most of all was moving away from all the triggers. I cut meds out entirely. I'm experimenting with st john's wort to keep the low cycle out of depression, but stronger drugs kick me into mania. And when all the drug fog finally lifted, I was able to work on the problems which kept me trapped in the endless cycle by myself.

This isn't healthcare. This is being a service agency for the pill manufactures.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Love, Epicenter
399 posts, read 522,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
But there's also a lot of people I think who do want to put in the work, but their doctors don't. The doctors get paid just as much for a ten minute appointment to write a new script as they do a 30 minute...but with the 10 minute check in they can fit in three times the patients and get paid three times as much. I don't think many patients are even offered anything other then meds.
Hey Parallel,
You're very right, there are, and it is really unfortunate that there are many in the healthcare field who are in it solely for the money. It leads to a lower incentive to helping those get better and improve their quality of life for the reasons that you stated. It's a highly complex and unfortunate system and many with mental health issues do fall through the cracks, and so it makes it so that those who are very vulnerable in terms of mental health problems have to learn to be more self-reliant at a time when it's very difficult to do so. Therapy can also be terribly pricey to those who are already struggling.

I highly encourage those who are going to see a doctor about mental health issues to ask their doctors about other alternatives to meds or if anything else can be done. Some doctors don't want to talk because they've "heard it all before" and are often discouraged and burnt out, but it's your health and just like you would if you had a cold, or a back problem, talk to your doctors and ask them questions because you have a right to know. If you googled info, ask them about the google info because everything on google isn't the die hard truth.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,570 posts, read 11,130,511 times
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If you are not nuts these drugs will make you nuts. Very few people really benefit from these compounds...It is a hit and miss thing and experimental...Prozac for instance has a warning..."may cause suicidal ideation" - in other words you might get the idea to kill yourself....20 years ago they would never have dared put out a substance that might remotely even have this side effect...My nephew killed himself after taking anti-crazy pills....and my older brothers father hung himself in the barn ----he was on meds and he was a little old worn out farmer...The great danger is the jolt if you try to get off this stuff---It's dangerous...


I hate the term MEDs as if it was some sort of common thing- It is a drastic and dramatic measure to alter someones brain chemistry- science still know very little about the human mind.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:44 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 8,855,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
If you are not nuts these drugs will make you nuts. Very few people really benefit from these compounds...It is a hit and miss thing and experimental...Prozac for instance has a warning..."may cause suicidal ideation" - in other words you might get the idea to kill yourself....20 years ago they would never have dared put out a substance that might remotely even have this side effect...My nephew killed himself after taking anti-crazy pills....and my older brothers father hung himself in the barn ----he was on meds and he was a little old worn out farmer...The great danger is the jolt if you try to get off this stuff---It's dangerous...


I hate the term MEDs as if it was some sort of common thing- It is a drastic and dramatic measure to alter someones brain chemistry- science still know very little about the human mind.
I agree with your entire post, but would like to focus on the latter. These drugs are POWERFUL and do alter chemistry and no one (not even shrinks) seems to know how!

Therefore, I steer clear where I can of these POWERFUL drugs. I'm okay with taking a benzo to sleep (I don't abuse them) but I am not okay with being prescribed heavy duty drugs that no one really knows much about.

My rule of thumb is to see how long a drug has been on the market. If it's gone generic, all the better - less risk to me. It just means it's been on the market longer and any adverse side effects would have cropped up by now - and I say this with respect to ALL drugs.

I still maintain that if we, as a society, were more like Latin America, for example, we'd be far better off. They don't stuff their old parents in nursing homes. They have extended family. All in all, a MUCH healthier culture. Who ever said I'd like being American?

Last edited by mistygrl092; 05-12-2012 at 06:11 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Lompoc,CA
1,261 posts, read 4,786,420 times
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I dont know if the statement that "very few people benefit from these compounds" is exactly accurate.
Ive taken an SSRI before and didnt feel like I was in an "altered" state. Just calmed down and able to
think much clearer.

Greenchili
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:24 AM
 
Location: In a state of denial
1,289 posts, read 2,724,314 times
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I think they have different effects on different people. For me it was a life saver, literally.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:50 AM
 
13,515 posts, read 14,938,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
A good article.

BBC News - 'Antipsychotic drugs made me want to kill myself'

"While antipsychotic drugs are seen as the most effective treatment of psychotic episodes, they are also recognised to have devastating side effects.
Doctors say many patients don't like taking medication long term, but a study published in the Lancet suggests that taking antipsychotic medication more than halves the risk of relapse in schizophrenic patients."
It might be a good thing to remember that this study was done in the UK, and there many more people might be using an NHS clinic setting, and not necessarily be seeing a doctor in the same setting as many Americans would.

More people in the U.S. would be seeing a regular doctor in a private practice, and would a greater opportunity to discuss side effect symptoms. Though, I grant that some private doctors in the U.S. seem to have a revolving-door type of scheduling.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:58 AM
 
5,660 posts, read 4,499,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
It might be a good thing to remember that this study was done in the UK, and there many more people might be using an NHS clinic setting, and not necessarily be seeing a doctor in the same setting as many Americans would.

More people in the U.S. would be seeing a regular doctor in a private practice, and would a greater opportunity to discuss side effect symptoms. Though, I grant that some private doctors in the U.S. seem to have a revolving-door type of scheduling.
I have a relative that receives treatment for mental health issues through the NHS and she sees her GP every other week and a specialist at a day care centre every other week so she's in contact with someone every week in effect.

I have no idea if this is normal in the UK or the US but that's what she receives anyway.

Just so's you know.
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