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Old 07-14-2012, 09:01 AM
Status: "Disoriented" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
61,134 posts, read 58,408,747 times
Reputation: 73255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
Yes, its systematic. It starts with little things. Don't like the food. Fix me something else. You pick up my mess. I want to watch football. Women give in since its not worth the fight. Then it gets worse. You spent money on stuff I didn't say you could. Tempers are roused and open threats are made. Women give in since they are already conditioned by the little things to, and they are ashamed. They don't like that they bought it but can't figure out how not to, and don't want to have anyone know they were so weak.

Then being weak is the defense. I am powerless so all I can do is go along. I have no will in this so its all I can do. Sometimes the turning point is fear for children, sometimes someone like friends or family try to intercede. But its a two way street. Little steps lead to bigger ones and both get trapped in this little hell of a relationship. Out of survival, she becomes the partener he wants. She loses all self worth. The hardest thing in trying to help is keeping her from being hurt badly in revenge and feeling inside after all that conditioning that she doesn't deserve anything else.

Women go back to abusive men not because they like it but because they have been beaten down so much they don't see any other option. The bad known is far easier than the terrifying unknown of being alone.

Women also abuse men. The shame for men is worse and fewer ever tell. But the psychology is the same.

This is very well written and well said. The shame has a lot to do with it. It's not only feeling that you don't deserve anything else, it's feeling that you can't have anything else. That this is your only choice. Being alone, having the world/family/friends see that you were not good enough to be "chosen" by anyone can sound worse than being in a bad relationship. (Being alone IS better, thank you very much--took me too long to realize that.)

Re women abusing men--that was the situation with a pair of coworkers of mine who married. They were both devoutly religious people, well-educated, involved in their church, and everyone was shocked when they separated after a couple of years. Only later did I learn that he had moved out because she had fits of rage and would beat him. It got to the point where he feared for his life.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:26 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,253 posts, read 37,875,107 times
Reputation: 20198
I don't think I know -how- to be an abused wife. I mean - just the thought of my husband saying "I don't like the food. Fix me something else." That's just - well. My response would be "you know where the fridge is, and you know how to turn on the stove. Fix yourself something else if you don't like it. This is what I'm serving for dinner."

On the other hand, I have a reasonable idea of my husband's food preferences, and usually try to accommodate them. I figure, he pays all the bills, the least I can do is provide him with the supper he likes. Plus, since he really prefers Burger King, it's not much of an effort on my part
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,239,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
I don't think I know -how- to be an abused wife. I mean - just the thought of my husband saying "I don't like the food. Fix me something else." That's just - well. My response would be "you know where the fridge is, and you know how to turn on the stove. Fix yourself something else if you don't like it. This is what I'm serving for dinner."

On the other hand, I have a reasonable idea of my husband's food preferences, and usually try to accommodate them. I figure, he pays all the bills, the least I can do is provide him with the supper he likes. Plus, since he really prefers Burger King, it's not much of an effort on my part
Funny about Burger King. Mine claimed he didn't like leftovers and I should throw them away. They were delicious the night before. So my son and I would have left overs and he'd go have a burger or two at Burger King. The important part is the mindset on the part of the complaining party, that *assumption* of control. Strangely, it was okay for him to demand I cook him something else but when my son would decided he didn't want dinner it was okay for him to have cerial. And my ex was a good cook. He was free to cook something on his own if he wanted to. But he wanted *me* to do it. That was the whole point.

Now I recognize this 'lacking' in him of self respect. He tried to fill it by controlling others. But being the quiet type if the harrassment didn't work he'd just walk away fuming and try again later. What's *so* poison about this kind of relationship is its so slowly pervasive. Half of its 'getting back at them' behind their back. Until its over you can't see the whole picture.

If a man or woman is violent, if they keep life in a state of perpetual terror there is something concrete to see and hear. The programming is very strong, but if the victum can break the control, they don't have any question about why to run. Silent, slow, hidden control and abuse and payback for losses is very much harder to escape because it makes life unhappy and off balance and the poison is there, but its not so bad that there is a clear alarm to run.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:36 PM
 
578 posts, read 934,625 times
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So many people men / women feel incomplete unless their in a relationship. These emotionally weak yet controlling monsters prey on the lonely and needy. It's sad and pathetic. When trying to assist a friend with an abusive spouse and a male family member with an extremely abusive mentally ill spouse it was in both instances a complete waste of time Theyd say they wanted help and to get out but kept just going back to their abuser. Finally you just have to walk away. Pathetic
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,239,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deliz View Post
So many people men / women feel incomplete unless their in a relationship. These emotionally weak yet controlling monsters prey on the lonely and needy. It's sad and pathetic. When trying to assist a friend with an abusive spouse and a male family member with an extremely abusive mentally ill spouse it was in both instances a complete waste of time Theyd say they wanted help and to get out but kept just going back to their abuser. Finally you just have to walk away. Pathetic
It's still worth trying, but with the knowledge that they themselves must break the link. Sometimes the presences and support of someone on their side will give them the will to try, sometimes not. But it is worth trying.

I tried very hard to help a friend who was being destroyed by her husband, and even after they divorced (or started a filing, never finished) he knew all the buttons. Finally she turned to booze and lost herself in it. It was heartbreaking but I knew I'd tried all I could and she died or climbed out. Never knew what happened to her or her handicapped (mentally) grandson who got used as a football. I don't think I want to now.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,519,924 times
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the shame, the feeling of worthlessness are not brought on overnight. Some women had little selfesteem already and came out of backgrounds where being abused was an everyday thing so they follow the pattern, it's what they're used to. Even though they swear they'll never let that type thing happen to them. People are being groomed into the role of battered spouse, usually from birth. My exes used to do what the OP described..the whispered yelling, even smiling while doing so, the kindness to strangers "he's such a great guy! helps everyone, opens doors, a true genteman, the last of his kind."
Leaving is another matter, some women are so down on themselves that they believe that no one loves them, the isolation the abuser puts on his victim is just another trap. And then there's the treaths, "if you leave, no one else will have you, I'll kill you first" And many women are murdered by their abuser when he notices he's losing control.
The guilt trips worked like a charm with me..I'd leave and he'd find me and cry on the phone or get his parents to cry on the phone about how he was wasting away without me..
leaving my first abuser(yes I had two, call it rebound) was the hardest because after a few days my son would want his daddy... Your heart breaks and you are scared and then the tugging of your kid at your sleeve to please "go home".
Believe me, my exes were charming towards me when we met too, but as soon as they knew they had me in their corner, they latched on and the abuse started fulltime...Hindsight being 20/20, I see how it worked an how I fell for it and I'm not stupid, nor am I blind...
My second ex "rescued" me and helped me get away from the first...
Truth is, I'm not in a relationship now for fear of it happening again; I still attract insecure men who are looking for a mommy and who need "taking care of like a kid", the type I fell for before...so for me that's enough to stay single.

Last edited by MaggieZ; 07-14-2012 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:27 PM
 
9,137 posts, read 6,564,035 times
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This really makes me sad. I do not understand the need to beat on the helpless. So dude is 6'1" 240 pounds. He's definitely bigger than me. Unfortunately, it does no good to jump in to save someone from such an abusive relationship. They will go right back to that abuser. I've been in an oppressive relationship. Let me tell you, first, the abuser gets in your mind and gives you the impression that you basically have no choice. After that, you are subject to anything the abuser wants to put you through.

Other people will see what is going on, and then even offer to help. You can't help but refuse, because in your mind, the abuser is a God, or somehow invincible. Anything that happens to him, he will get back at YOU. (Of course, it's not like that, but in the mind of the victim, it is)

The truth is that the abuser is a weakling, he is pathetic and powerless. Too many times, people are looking for someone to take advantage of. Some would say that we are responsible for protecting ourselves from unheathy dysfunctional relationships. But, how do we catch it. (Some abusers are very subtle)
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg/Virginia Beach, VA
11,009 posts, read 11,621,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJenkins602 View Post
(Some abusers are very subtle)
Most are. At least at first. By the time their true selves are revealed a person is locked into a relationship and for whatever reason, believes there to be no escape.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 10,249,826 times
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Wow, so many sad stories including the OP. I'm no stranger to abuse either, it started with my father and every single relationship I've had over the years has been abusive on some level. And like a lot of others have stated here, I am now alone and I like it that way. I will never accept that kind of treatment ever again, but it took me a very long time to get to this point. The OP's story made me think of a couple of people from the past and their stories.....I don't really care to share all of my garbage but I will share theirs.

Back in 2007, I was in a mental facility (bi-polar I) and a girl came in who was one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen in real life. You know, so extraordinarily beautiful that she was intimidating. And from her behavior, she was well aware of her beauty. We (all the bi-polar people on the wing) wondered what she was doing there....I mean, how could someone like this have ANY problems? Turns out she was not bi-polar but was suffering from depression due to an incident with her boyfriend. He was extremely abusive, and had cold-cocked her in public right on the street for all to see, knocking her down. She was very closed-off and haughty at first, but after a while she opened up and was actually very likeable.

As some have stated here, apparently there are those who cannot break free from this kind of abuse for whatever reason. He was still controlling her even in the hospital......we were allowed a certain amount of time on wall phones and I overheard her conversations with him. He was constantly calling and groveling, apologizing and as far as I know she never spoke with anyone but him. I was stunned......she had absolutely everything going for her, yet she was falling for this guy's crap all over again. Just goes to show that even the most (or what seems like the most) fortunate people in life are riddled with low self-esteem and no self-worth and accept such horrible treatment from others. He seemed like the kind of guy who would eventually kill her......I still wonder whatever happened to her. It was a little hard to feel sorry for her given her beauty and attitude of superiority, but looking beyond that you could see the pain. Very sad.

I had a friend many years ago who was also in an abusive relationship, not physical per se but very viciously verbal and emotionally abusive. They were married very young and at the time I was married also to my own 1st abusive husband. We both had small babies and she felt stuck. She would call me nearly every night and whine and complain for hours and I just wanted to scream at her sometimes "JUST GET OUT!!!" cause you're driving me crazy! I can't tell you how many times I begged her to leave him and offered solutions but she seemed fixated on staying in this dysfunctional relationship and was just happy being able to whine about it. Of course, now I understand being beaten down so far that you can't see any way out, but at the time I was delusional about my own marriage and unaware of a lot of things he was doing so I guess I was being a little self-righteous.

After several years and lots of abuse she finally found the strength to leave him. Hallelujah! I thought things were going to get better for her but after a long court battle for custody, the bastard managed to get custody of their daughter because he lied and had a whole community of people put on the witness stand against her and for him. It was unbelievable how many people he had on his side and how he manipulated the court appointed liaison. They were not from here and all of her family was in another state so she had no support compared to what he had. He had managed to control the entire court system and he won. It was devastating.

Now, years later he is STILL controlling the situation. She told me on FB that her daughter just had a baby and that her ex threatened the daughter to cut her off completely if she allowed her mother to see the baby. Apparently he built a house for her and her husband right next to his house and the daughter also works for him in his business. Still very much controlling everything and everyone. So sad, and unfortunately my friend remarried into another, different type of abusive relationship some years ago and has another child. I feel sure she stays with this one for fear of losing custody of yet another child. It seems nearly impossible to break the cycle of abuse. The only way I have managed to do it I think is that I have remained single and alone after my 2nd abusive failed marriage 8 years ago.

I still have very low self-esteem, suffer terribly from my mental illness and seem to attract the same type of people or make the wrong choices over and over again. In order to maintain some sort of sanity I think I am just destined to be alone. But it's not that bad, I've gotten rather used to it and my stress level and mental and physical health are much better this way. But I think a big part of abused people accepting their abuse is sheer terror of being alone. Trust me people, it's not the worst thing in the world and you might find that after an adjustment period that it works for you. We've been conditioned to believe (especially women) that we are less of a person or somehow not complete without a man in our lives. That is a fallacy that needs to be done away with.......mothers, don't do this to your daughters. Don't push for marriage or grandchildren and make it seem like that is a girl's only choice. Let them strike out on their own and become someone they will love and respect so they will never accept this kind of treatment for fear of being alone.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:27 PM
 
9,137 posts, read 6,564,035 times
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I have struggled with low self esteem myself. After spending a little bit of time alone, I sat down to ask myself what means the most to me. After a while I figured out what I like about myself and what I don't like about myself. I figured out what I want for myself. Now, I don't have it yet, but just knowing what would make me feel better makes a difference.

I have similar problems. It's not just women that are made to believe that they need to have someone. A lot of guys believe that too. As a matter of fact, they seem to be more afraid of being alone than women (in my town). It seems like some men are giving up on women and starting to seek out other guys.

Yeah, I learned a long time ago that I should be alone (at least for a while). I find that when I'm alone, I'm a lot more sane. As the saying goes, it is better to be alone than in bad company.

Sadly, bad company seeks me out. I've been stalked, slandered and nearly kidnapped and nearly sexually assaulted. (by guys)

Interesting thing is that I have pretty much solved my self esteem problems. There is just something about me that attracts these sickos. I do notice that it tends to happen when I am in the best mood. (A lot of predators take me as weak when I am happy) One woman did tell me that I have "kind eyes." That could be what attracts the sickos. The thing is that I can read people, and I know when someone is trying to f*** me over. I can even tell how the person wants to f*** me over.

I really like smiling. I like showing my joyful side. I have taken care of my appearance. (A lot of women have told me that I am good looking) I like the way I look, now. Now I don't think I'm any better looking or even as good looking as those celebrities, but I am content with what I have. It helps a lot. I love giving off a more peaceful vibe. Unfortunately, it does attract obsessed and otherwise sick dudes. Dealing with someone that can't let you out of their site and has to have his hand on you at all times is frustrating and sickening. I had to turn into psycho mode so that he would finally back off.

I believe that there is a need for alone time so that you can develop and become someone that you can appreciate and respect. My problem is I never had that time. I always had to deal with someone with obsessive tendencies. I was raised by parents and caretakers that always had me under close scrutiny. I guess that is okay in the first years of life, but at some point you have to let go. Imagine being under constant scrutiny and every single thing you do being wrong or bad. Imagine that going into your 20s.

When I deal with people like that, I start to feel like I'm suffocating. Now, if I'm around more accepting people, I can handle more time with them. But I'm apparently dealing with a person that is a combination of obsessed and judgmental.

Now when I'm alone, I can breathe. I can recharge. I can take care of what I need to take care of and finally grow into the person that I want to be.

While I have come far, I feel I have a lot of work to do. Until then, it looks like I may have to reserve my "kind eyes" and adopt a more "hardened" look. LOL! (Man I have droned on).

There seems to be this bad stigma that alone = bad. Some people wouldn't jerk off or take a s*** alone. Unfortunately, these types of people miss out on growth. At the same time, these types of people who are scared of being alone tend to be the abusive types.

Illene, keep working on yourself. As you make progress, there will be people who cross your path with no other intention but to take away what you are working on. The world is full of people that love to spread misery and ruin other people's days. The best thing to do with control freaks and toxic people is to not give them any of your power. They get a high from one hint of response.
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