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Old 07-18-2013, 10:17 PM
 
60 posts, read 174,839 times
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Maybe illness isn't the right word - it's a combination of things. And I apologize if this is the wrong forum - wasn't sure where to post.

Ok, to condense a long story: She was an alcoholic for 15+ years. She stopped because her pancreas freaked out. They did surgery, and she probably needs more because the ducts don't allow bile through. Anyways, doctors prescribed her pain meds after the surgery (I can't remember which ones) so she was taking them wrong. As in...too many, or complaining it wasn't working and she needed something stronger.

That was three years ago. We tolerated her pain complaints and she refused to explore any other options (such as therapy - she's been chronically depressed for as long as I can remember, doesn't want to go to physical therapy to help her back issues, etc.) On my youngest sister's 18th birthday, she woke up one morning, took her pills and fell back to sleep. Woke up again, took more...then forgot and took MORE mid afternoon. Ended up in the hospital. I told the ER doc that she was on the meds and had previous depression issues and they kept her on a psych hold to evaluate her. She was extremely upset with all of us for not just "letting her go home and sleep" since she thinks that's all she needs to do.

New doc, new surgeon changed her meds and found out she's got a triglyceride issue that affects her memory. So she takes pain pills, doesn't eat well or take her triglyceride meds, and she takes too many pills. Doses off, passes out (she calls it sleep), and forgets things. It's a pretty steady cycle. She gets mad at us if we even breathe a word of her issues to her, and heaven forbid we try to talk her into getting help.

About 6 months ago she went to the store and didn't some back. She was missing for over 4 hours before we found her passed out in the truck, with the door cracked in front of a store. She was mad, embarrassed, and hateful for a couple days. She lost her job about 2 weeks ago due to this issue happening at work, after the company gave her many tries and medical time off to help it. Nothing really changed.

My sister just called and said she was in the hospital again. She apparently went to get her nails done, and no idea what happened. The hospital told my sisters that she told them something about being at a job interview and...we're not really sure what really happened. My sisters and stepfather found their vehicle at a store right across from the nail salon, so we think she was in one of the stores and had whatever kind of episode she had. Normally it's slurred speech, delayed answers, incoherent behavior.

I don't know what to do anymore. She says she doesn't want to be in pain any longer, which I understand. But even when she takes the meds, she says she's still in pain. She's only traded the pills for the booze to fuel her addictions, and I cannot be a party to that. She swears the only problem she has is the pain, and that the meds are not a problem. Typical addict behavior, I understand, but I'm unsure of what else, if anything, we can do. I can't sit by and let her destroy herself, but I can't let her ruin my life either.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:20 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,900,631 times
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Visit Sober Recovery Forums. You'll get a lot of advice.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:51 AM
 
1,824 posts, read 1,716,180 times
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For depression, anxiety, suicidal feelings, physical pain, addiction etc, one of the best treatments is cannabis. It helps 126 medical conditions (patient accounts) at rxmarijuana dot com/ hosted by retired Harvard Medical School professor Lester Grinspoon MD. He's 84, has been top expert for decades. Also, Granny Storm Crow's list has 1,000+ studies & verifiable anecdotes, listed alphabetically by conditions helped. Wikipedia has good info, too, but some info is disputed & will be listed as such. Other things it is good for is quitting cigarettes (nicotine) & other drugs, & moderating alcohol consumption.

It might be the perfect drug for addictive types as no amount is fatal. It doesn't even cause illness. You can see the possible penalties & which states allow it for some medical conditions at norml.org/ It is legal for all adults by state law in CO & WA, but illegal by Federal law since 1937 to protect Big Pharma, etc. I've never heard of anyone committing suicide while getting the effect.

High triglycerides can be made normal with COQ10, a "dietary supplement" sold by swansonvitamins dot com/ pipingrock.com/ & many sellers on Amazon. Also available at local places like Walmart, for a higher price. Also, Swanson & others have pills supposed to help memory & concentration. I don't know if any "dietary supplements" are addicting, as most don't produce immediate changes in feelings, and even long-term one might not feel much different. Some have formal studies, may improve lab tests.

Prescription pills for depression don't work past several months, if at all. Most were created to correct an alleged chemical imbalance, but this need was only a theory, never proven. These pills may increase suicides, even.

Effective & cheap pills for liver repair do exist: Himalaya Herbal Healthcare's Liver Care is world's biggest seller, on market since 1950's. Alpha Lipoic Acid worked wonders when injected, so I guess the pills should be good, probably slower, though.

Have pancreatic cancer, liver cancer, & others cancers been ruled out? Cannabis in oil form has cured even stage IV cancers & other fatal illnesses. 400 cancer treatments at cancertutor.com/ Treatments are rated by type & stage of cancer (also has treatments for other conditions on left, scrolling down). 60% of Americans get cancer, & the standard "treatments" don't work very well if at all, with 3 out of 4 dead within 5 years. Sometimes the torture "treatments" of cutting, burning & poisoning kill before the cancer does. 85,000 approved toxins in our air, soil, food & water make everyone at risk.

Another helpful site is Sloan-Kettering Memorial Cancer Center skmcc.org/ They have amongst other things a section on dietary supplements.

On back pain, I just put up with it sometimes. Safe supplements exist, like Boswellia, but these are only good for mild to moderate pain. I have scoliosis (curvature of spine). Some who have operations find they often don't help & can cause more damage. Again, cannabis is a good treatment. When the Libertarian Presidential candidate Gary Johnson fell 50 feet, he had broken bones in back, rib & knee, just about dead. He used cannabis 3 years to manage pain, rather than risk operations & addictive opiates like Oxycontin. He's fine today, back to being a serious athlete.

Just to be clear on the situation, is she living with you? Is there a visiting nurse? Does anyone ever visit her? Does anyone offer to take care of her for a day or even a few hours, so you can take a break?

I took care of my grandmother much of the time for 14 years & we were both going nuts. Best wishes to both of you.





Quote:
Originally Posted by awayinco View Post
She was an alcoholic for 15+ years. She stopped because her pancreas freaked out. They did surgery, and she probably needs more because the ducts don't allow bile through.

she's been chronically depressed for as long as I can remember, back issues, etc.)

New doc, new surgeon changed her meds and found out she's got a triglyceride issue that affects her memory. So she takes pain pills, doesn't eat well or take her triglyceride meds, and she takes too many pills. Doses off, passes out (she calls it sleep), and forgets things.

She doesn't want to be in pain any longer. Even when she takes the meds, she says she's still in pain. She's only traded the pills for the booze to fuel her addictions. She swears the only problem she has is the pain. I can't sit by and let her destroy herself, but I can't let her ruin my life either.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,869 posts, read 16,280,653 times
Reputation: 29230
Your mother is a chronic substance abuser, which you seem to understand. Apparently it's led to her blacking out. She is in a VERY bad way. Even aside from the toxicity issues involved with her overdosing, a semi-conscious woman passed out in a truck parked in a public place is in serious danger of becoming a crime victim, in addition to her many other issues.

It certainly sounds as if she is fighting sobriety at every step of the way and she if she isn't suicidal, your description ("I just want to go home and sleep") shows her as well on the way there. You don't really say what happened after her psych evaluation. Surely some medical person she's seen has suggested commitment to a rehabilitation facility although I understand she won't want to go. If your entire family is in agreement, I think you should get a professional to help you stage an intervention. She is far beyond being helped by a therapist as a outpatient. How's she going to remember what the therapist said? She needs to be de-toxed by professional medical experts before serious therapy can begin.

Whether or not you get her to go to a rehab, you and other members of your family should visit Al-Anon where family members can get help for living with this disease, first and foremost by being taught how not to enable addicts/alcoholics. But, for heaven's sake, please don't add marijuana to the list of drugs she's already on. Pain is her excuse, not her problem.

Good luck to you.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:25 PM
 
5,696 posts, read 6,197,715 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by awayinco View Post
Maybe illness isn't the right word - it's a combination of things. And I apologize if this is the wrong forum - wasn't sure where to post.

Ok, to condense a long story: She was an alcoholic for 15+ years. She stopped because her pancreas freaked out. They did surgery, and she probably needs more because the ducts don't allow bile through. Anyways, doctors prescribed her pain meds after the surgery (I can't remember which ones) so she was taking them wrong. As in...too many, or complaining it wasn't working and she needed something stronger.

That was three years ago. We tolerated her pain complaints and she refused to explore any other options (such as therapy - she's been chronically depressed for as long as I can remember, doesn't want to go to physical therapy to help her back issues, etc.) On my youngest sister's 18th birthday, she woke up one morning, took her pills and fell back to sleep. Woke up again, took more...then forgot and took MORE mid afternoon. Ended up in the hospital. I told the ER doc that she was on the meds and had previous depression issues and they kept her on a psych hold to evaluate her. She was extremely upset with all of us for not just "letting her go home and sleep" since she thinks that's all she needs to do.

New doc, new surgeon changed her meds and found out she's got a triglyceride issue that affects her memory. So she takes pain pills, doesn't eat well or take her triglyceride meds, and she takes too many pills. Doses off, passes out (she calls it sleep), and forgets things. It's a pretty steady cycle. She gets mad at us if we even breathe a word of her issues to her, and heaven forbid we try to talk her into getting help.

About 6 months ago she went to the store and didn't some back. She was missing for over 4 hours before we found her passed out in the truck, with the door cracked in front of a store. She was mad, embarrassed, and hateful for a couple days. She lost her job about 2 weeks ago due to this issue happening at work, after the company gave her many tries and medical time off to help it. Nothing really changed.

My sister just called and said she was in the hospital again. She apparently went to get her nails done, and no idea what happened. The hospital told my sisters that she told them something about being at a job interview and...we're not really sure what really happened. My sisters and stepfather found their vehicle at a store right across from the nail salon, so we think she was in one of the stores and had whatever kind of episode she had. Normally it's slurred speech, delayed answers, incoherent behavior.

I don't know what to do anymore. She says she doesn't want to be in pain any longer, which I understand. But even when she takes the meds, she says she's still in pain. She's only traded the pills for the booze to fuel her addictions, and I cannot be a party to that. She swears the only problem she has is the pain, and that the meds are not a problem. Typical addict behavior, I understand, but I'm unsure of what else, if anything, we can do. I can't sit by and let her destroy herself, but I can't let her ruin my life either.


I suggest Al-anon
alcoholism is a family disease and you have been and are effected if she drinks or not
I am a recovering alcoholic of several years but I still needed Al-anon
we have 3 c's
we did not Cause it
we can not Control it
we can not Cure it
a wonderful program
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:27 PM
 
5,696 posts, read 6,197,715 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Visit Sober Recovery Forums. You'll get a lot of advice.

in Al-anon they don't give advice
they offer a solution
the last thing I needed was advice I needed recovery
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:09 PM
 
60 posts, read 174,839 times
Reputation: 138
Thanks for the advice everyone. We talked today and she thought she was going to get sympathy from me for it...she was wrong. I told her flat out that if she did not get help, I was done. I would contact an attorney to find out how to get her involuntarily committed to rehab, and I would no longer coddle her or ignore her deplorable behavior. She begged my sisters and I to let her try it herself before anything else, and we agreed - with a schedule. No letting her goof around for weeks on end, in her fun of depression. She took the information in better than expected, but still wasn't happy. She even tried to guilt me at one point for "leaving the family" when my husband, daughter and I moved to a town about 15 miles away for work last year. I told her she could stop with the guilt trip, it wasn't working. It was not an easy conversation to have...but we'll see if she steps up, or we have to step in.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:34 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,900,631 times
Reputation: 8956
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia dem View Post
in Al-anon they don't give advice
they offer a solution
the last thing I needed was advice I needed recovery
Well, that's you. We're not talking about you.

Sober Recovery Forums use a 12 step model as a basic guideline. It's a good resource.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: earth?
7,284 posts, read 12,900,631 times
Reputation: 8956
Quote:
Originally Posted by awayinco View Post
Thanks for the advice everyone. We talked today and she thought she was going to get sympathy from me for it...she was wrong. I told her flat out that if she did not get help, I was done. I would contact an attorney to find out how to get her involuntarily committed to rehab, and I would no longer coddle her or ignore her deplorable behavior. She begged my sisters and I to let her try it herself before anything else, and we agreed - with a schedule. No letting her goof around for weeks on end, in her fun of depression. She took the information in better than expected, but still wasn't happy. She even tried to guilt me at one point for "leaving the family" when my husband, daughter and I moved to a town about 15 miles away for work last year. I told her she could stop with the guilt trip, it wasn't working. It was not an easy conversation to have...but we'll see if she steps up, or we have to step in.
Try to remember that alcoholics and addicts "in the disease" are incapable of acting rationally. I would have very few expectations, otherwise you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Her life and her recovery is ultimately up to her.

Just don't enable her (easier said than done when it gets down to survival issues and the family).
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:22 PM
 
1,824 posts, read 1,716,180 times
Reputation: 1378
[quote=awayinco;30573147] I would contact an attorney to find out how to get her involuntarily committed to rehab, and I would no longer coddle her or ignore her deplorable behavior. No letting her goof around for weeks on end, in her fun of depression.


Procrastination is a typical part of depression. It can be so severe that the person would not act about something that would kill them. What she needs is someone who cares about her more than she does. Often nurses are sympathetic, maybe a visiting nurse could help calm her. I think they've been free in some govt health plans for those with under $10,000 assets.

Drugs aren't the total problem, more like a symptom. Thinking about fatal OD, suicidal people should not be prescribed drugs that can kill. I'm amazed she can get enough pills to take ODs regularly. Last I heard, DEA was closing down Doc's offices 1 day a month to check who's using multiple Docs to OD.

Pills for mental illness, designed on *theory* that they correct chemical imbalance, may cause suicide. New theory mental illness may be caused by undiagnosed physical problem. 26% of those who say they use cannabis medically say they are using it to treat depression (suicide prevention included).

In the 1851 US Dispensatory, Docs were advised to recommend cannabis for all mental health issues. Long known to treat physical pain.

What do doctors say about her physical condition (has she had a physical lately? Does she have health insurance?) As it has been, those with assets under $10,000 probably qualify for reduced cost medical care from govt. Not sure if Obamacare changes this.

Do any really think people with depression are having fun? Over 31,000 Americans a year who have depression kill themselves. They don't do it just to give guilt to caregivers & remaining next of kin.

Often, people seem more fixed on addictions than on health. Many feel if they don't care if they harm themselves, should you? Those who specialize in addiction treatment mostly care about money, not if their "treatment" works. Some flawed theories have been promoted for decades.

She needs something to make her want to live, being drug-free is not necessarily the route to happiness. Minimal pain is part of happiness formula. I keep reading repeatedly about people who go to rehab, then after getting out, fatal OD.

Cannabis helps 126 conditions-proven-0% chance of fatal OD & long-term is not fatal, either. If she's brainwashed like 50% still are, she'll believe it is addictive & fatal, which might help her to want it.

If you are not in a state that allows medical marijuana, maybe you or others could help pay (if she can't) to send her one way to whatever state would allow it for one or more of her conditions? Then you'd be free of her forever, except she might contact you to tell you how good she feels! (I've read maybe 10,000 pages about it).

Thanks for trying so hard to help her. You certainly should not have the full burden, if any. I'm trying to be helpful, hope I'm not offending you. Best wishes to all.
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