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Old 11-02-2015, 12:04 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 6,069,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh-eve View Post
There is a professional opinion:

Depression, PTSD, and OCD.

Me and friend just think there is also bipolar involved, especially since his dad had it also and the depression meds don't work.
OP

Despite what other posters are saying, bipolar involves mania. The swings are days or weeks long and the sufferer usually does a lot of damage to their own lives in the mania phase (see: magical thinking).

Your friend does not show mania.

You are trying to second guess the Clinicians. Assuming he's had more than one therapist agreeing with each other - don't. They go to school for years to be able to do this, work with very sick people as part of their training, they KNOW what Bipolar presents like.

There could well be BPD, as I said - rapid cycling mood swings. If he had an unwell father that raises the likelihood for several different reasons.

BPD is only usually diagnosed when, like me, the depression becomes more intractable despite treatment.

Then, its time to investigate further.

If he had mania that would've shown up in his sessions. They would've asked his symptoms, diagnosed it.

If he had Bipolar life would be a lot easier for everyone concerned - pop a pill and its treated.

BPD is a whole other beast. It kinda "hides" as other symptoms.

Try to get your friend to a Complex Needs Clinic. It's where ive ended up and its making a HUGE difference already. They know how to deal with this horrible disease.

And not a script in sight....BPD does not respond to meds. Which is how they finally diagnosed it! plus, they went looking.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:23 PM
 
10,194 posts, read 7,663,789 times
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Sorry cinder, but your info about bipolar is really off.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:29 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 6,069,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
Sorry cinder, but your info about bipolar is really off.
...and you have a link stating that?

you will at least agree that OP's friends Medical Professionals have diagnosed him, not with one mental illness but 3, and NOT bipolar?

Or are you saying they're wrong too?

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Old 11-02-2015, 12:30 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 6,069,900 times
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OP I've got more mental illness diagnosed now than you can shake a stick at, some of which I didn't even know existed!

They stack up like pancakes.

None of the several therapists ive seen have ever even hinted at bipolar.

Why not?

Because I don't display long cycling mania.

The End.
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Old 11-02-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,420,696 times
Reputation: 16831
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
OP

Despite what other posters are saying, bipolar involves mania. The swings are days or weeks long and the sufferer usually does a lot of damage to their own lives in the mania phase (see: magical thinking).

Your friend does not show mania.

You are trying to second guess the Clinicians. Assuming he's had more than one therapist agreeing with each other - don't. They go to school for years to be able to do this, work with very sick people as part of their training, they KNOW what Bipolar presents like.

There could well be BPD, as I said - rapid cycling mood swings. If he had an unwell father that raises the likelihood for several different reasons.

BPD is only usually diagnosed when, like me, the depression becomes more intractable despite treatment.

Then, its time to investigate further.

If he had mania that would've shown up in his sessions. They would've asked his symptoms, diagnosed it.

If he had Bipolar life would be a lot easier for everyone concerned - pop a pill and its treated.

BPD is a whole other beast. It kinda "hides" as other symptoms.

Try to get your friend to a Complex Needs Clinic. It's where ive ended up and its making a HUGE difference already. They know how to deal with this horrible disease.

And not a script in sight....BPD does not respond to meds. Which is how they finally diagnosed it! plus, they went looking.
What's important is what works, not what its called. If drugs don't then don't use them. What makes me wonder is my own experinece in 'the system' is that drugs are the go to since they are cheap, and if there's any doubt they get used first. If they do nothing, then they may still be used just incase. It shouldn't be what the diagnosis is, but what helps him find a way to funcition to what to him makes him comfortable. Note I didn't say to the therapist. We find a comfortable place even though that may not be what someone else thinks it should be, but it is one which we feel comfortable and functional.

But about the mood swings. They do not have to last days or hours. Sometimes they are triggered by trauma related triggers, and sometimes chemical swings. And sometimes positive related triggers. These may last an hour or less or days. All the little details which wired the trigger into the brain decide that.

And normal swings can come and go just as easily. They can even be extreme. Its how the wiring came, in chemical terms added to the environment.

And some just rapid cycle. No matter what happens, they are happy for so long and then get quiet and sad looking, then late back to happy.

There are many forms of cycling and how and why has to be taken into consideration. If its bad trigger, you *have* to let the memory in and allow yourself to see it and learn to deal with it. Then you can stop them. If you just rapid cycle, then you may always rapid cycle since its very hard to use a drug to adjust such shifts.

And at some point, most accept a certain amount of shifiting and just live with it. The brain is amazing at figuring ways around them. You can learn to even use the triggers to stop and reverse a mood, and usually can feel them coming on. Or use some of the moods for desirable results.

Last edited by nightbird47; 11-02-2015 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 11-02-2015, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,420,696 times
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It's all good and well to talk about how to treat something like bipolar, but all the best ideas still have to work in reality, and reality is a pretty hard and traumatic place. Its not hard to see why many don't want anything to do with it. And when you see how things really work for most, its not hard to see why it doesn't work for most.

One consideration here, which hasn't been discussed yet, is the real world. In theory, someone with a mental problem could see a doctor, be supervised by a medical doctor who works with the pdoc, and is given full disclosure about risks. They may veto a plan because they don't wish to take a medical risk. And once they are 'better' then continue to have the level of care and review.

If therapy would do more good than drugs its still drugs since therapists cost more than a bottle of pills. Therapy with minimal drugs should be an option and therapy to adjust and deal with what was in the past should be a part of it.

But for most people it isn't like that. Just getting to SEE a pdoc is a great journey unless your lucky to have good insurence, especially if it pays for a good followup which continues and the patient's wished continue to matter.

In realtiy, however, after jumping over hoops and waiting a long time, its some incident which gets the first doctor. They don't see the person in the normal they live in but in crisis. They pass them on to the doctors who see the rest of the herd. Too often, people just get drug added over drug and they are a medical mess as well. That's the reality. They don't have the time to see if something better is out there, and there is NO medical supervision unless the patient goes to their own medical doctor. In my case, the pdoc just got irritated when I refused most of his ideas because of real medical issues he'd never asked about and didn't want to hear. The person with insurence who pays for all the stuff its supposed to, who has doctors who have the time to really do their job is the rarity. For MOST people, they're lucky to see a doctor three times a year while taking meds which require much tighter monitoring, and even then the 'doctor' isn't a medical one and dismisses side effects even if they are medically risky. You don't have much time to talk about really worrisome stuff like that in your ten to fifteen minutes either. In the last year I took meds, I spent about an hour and a bit more since I insisted with the doctor. I showed liver damage on a test done by my medical doctor, required but never ordered by the pdoc who dismissed that as unimportant. Its a shove them in and out fast world for MOST patients.

Given that, one thing which must be empasized too is that many to most psych drugs carry severe health warnings. It's my experience that pdocs don't think about that. I should NEVER have had to have catarac surgery at all, at least on the second eye after the first was done. The paper on the med says do not give to those with cataracs or those who had them. But I ended up within months needing my right eye done after the left one was. The med doctor was very perplexed and I didn't make the connection until looking up all the paperwork on my meds. I told the pdoc and it SURPRISED him. After that, I looked up everything and vetoed based on health after that. I was considered a bad patient, but then sometimes you have to look out for yourself. Note that many people end up stopping meds and largely from side effects which they consider unacceptable.

Unless its self destructive, people should not be filled with chemicals just so they seem 'normal'. The goal should be the minimum drugs and absolute involvement with a medical doctor and the patient's agreement to the risk. The goal should be the least drugs to achieve a state of functional living. None of us will ever be some 'normal' we all share so lets stop trying to defeat nature's goal of variety in life and individuals.

Last edited by nightbird47; 11-02-2015 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:35 PM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,899,264 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
OP

Despite what other posters are saying, bipolar involves mania. The swings are days or weeks long and the sufferer usually does a lot of damage to their own lives in the mania phase (see: magical thinking).

Your friend does not show mania.

You are trying to second guess the Clinicians. Assuming he's had more than one therapist agreeing with each other - don't. They go to school for years to be able to do this, work with very sick people as part of their training, they KNOW what Bipolar presents like.

There could well be BPD, as I said - rapid cycling mood swings. If he had an unwell father that raises the likelihood for several different reasons.

BPD is only usually diagnosed when, like me, the depression becomes more intractable despite treatment.

Then, its time to investigate further.

If he had mania that would've shown up in his sessions. They would've asked his symptoms, diagnosed it.

If he had Bipolar life would be a lot easier for everyone concerned - pop a pill and its treated.

Hahahahahahhaa if only diagnosis and treatment was so simple

BPD is a whole other beast. It kinda "hides" as other symptoms.

Try to get your friend to a Complex Needs Clinic. It's where ive ended up and its making a HUGE difference already. They know how to deal with this horrible disease.

And not a script in sight....BPD does not respond to meds. Which is how they finally diagnosed it! plus, they went looking.
We get it. You have Borderline Personality Disorder and you're not bipolar. You seem quite proud of your diagnosis which is why often times a diagnosis can become a self fulfilling profacy.

You also tend to make it seem like BPD is the worst mental illness ever and as long as you don't have BPD it's not that bad. Which is understandable because it falls right in with the black and white thinking that is a hallmark of BPD. Not to mention how almost all of your posts come back to you. Even when it's not your thread, somehow you always bring it back to you and your conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
...and you have a link stating that?

you will at least agree that OP's friends Medical Professionals have diagnosed him, not with one mental illness but 3, and NOT bipolar?

Or are you saying they're wrong too?

No one is saying the doctors are wrong.

You don't need a link. It's been said multiple times to you, in multiple threads.

You've ignored most of it so why bother repeating it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
OP I've got more mental illness diagnosed now than you can shake a stick at, some of which I didn't even know existed!
Oh good grief. This isn't a contest. I've got a bunch of diagnoses as well!

Woooohooo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
They stack up like pancakes.

None of the several therapists ive seen have ever even hinted at bipolar.

Why not?

Because I don't display long cycling mania.

The End.
You don't need long cycling mania to be bipolar.

Since even you admit you're not a trained professional and you don't have bipolar. Can we come to an agreement that you stop telling people incorrect information. It's getting ridiculous.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:39 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,357,874 times
Reputation: 4159
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
OP

Despite what other posters are saying, bipolar involves mania. The swings are days or weeks long and the sufferer usually does a lot of damage to their own lives in the mania phase (see: magical thinking).

Your friend does not show mania.

You are trying to second guess the Clinicians. Assuming he's had more than one therapist agreeing with each other - don't. They go to school for years to be able to do this, work with very sick people as part of their training, they KNOW what Bipolar presents like.

There could well be BPD, as I said - rapid cycling mood swings. If he had an unwell father that raises the likelihood for several different reasons.

BPD is only usually diagnosed when, like me, the depression becomes more intractable despite treatment.

Then, its time to investigate further.

If he had mania that would've shown up in his sessions. They would've asked his symptoms, diagnosed it.

If he had Bipolar life would be a lot easier for everyone concerned - pop a pill and its treated.

BPD is a whole other beast. It kinda "hides" as other symptoms.

Try to get your friend to a Complex Needs Clinic. It's where ive ended up and its making a HUGE difference already. They know how to deal with this horrible disease.

And not a script in sight....BPD does not respond to meds. Which is how they finally diagnosed it! plus, they went looking.
Bipolar disorder doesn't necessarily involve mania: NIMH » Bipolar Disorder in Adults

There are a lot of people with bipolar disorder who don't experience the "classic", so-called "manic-depressive" cycle.

Someone can have Bipolar I and experience a "mixed episode" which isn't like "pure" mania at all. They can have Bipolar II and have depressive episodes and hypomanic episodes, without experiencing mania. Or they can have BP-NOS, which may or may not include manic episodes. Or, a person could have Cyclothemia, which is possibly a type of bipolar condition, without mania.

I don't think you're really speaking accurately when you refer to BDP as "rapid cycling" mood swings. A person with rapid cycling bipolar disorder seems to cycle through a fairly predictable pattern over hours or days. BPD sounds more unpredictable, and the emotional "lability" suggests to me that mood "swings" are actually intense reactions to triggers, and there's some logic to them. If you see something that would make you sad, you suffer intense transitory depression. If you see something that would anger you, you might feel intense transitory rage, etc. For a bipolar person, the moods are untethered from triggers. If someone's manic, they might laugh at terrible news, because there's no "breaker" on the mood episode, that kind of thing.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:04 PM
 
2,563 posts, read 2,980,951 times
Reputation: 3510
Get a copy of the latest DSM manual. They have all the diagnoses listed, as well as the necessary symptoms.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:22 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,357,874 times
Reputation: 4159
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post

Unless its self destructive, people should not be filled with chemicals just so they seem 'normal'. The goal should be the minimum drugs and absolute involvement with a medical doctor and the patient's agreement to the risk. The goal should be the least drugs to achieve a state of functional living. None of us will ever be some 'normal' we all share so lets stop trying to defeat nature's goal of variety in life and individuals.
Unfortunately, there are lots of us who do need medication. No one says to a person with blindness, "Are you sure you want to use a walking cane/guide dog? Won't that change who you really are?" No one says to a deaf person, "Why don't you stop using the hearing aid? Maybe it's masking your real personality?" No one says to a wheelchair user, "Why don't you try to live your life without it? Maybe it's smothering your true self?" ARGH.

There's a long-standing bias against the mentally ill in Western society, it involves blaming the victim. If we had more self-control, more self-discipline, if we tried harder, if we had enough will power, we'd be able to tough it out. It's our "fault". Don't admit that you "need" medication, it's an admission of weakness. Don't let anyone think that you aren't "strong" and "normal". Well, normal people can go get stuffed. They're boring anyway...

I need medication, and I'm not ashamed of it. If this were the 1950s and these meds didn't exist, I'd have been thrown into an institution, maybe given a lobotomy, or maybe I'd be dead. I'll take my meds, no matter how experimental they are, any day. I like my life now.
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