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Old 01-08-2017, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,164,132 times
Reputation: 16936

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crd08 View Post
I don't take what you take but I take xanax (another benzo) for my panic disorder. I was so afraid to take them though. My doctor, bless his heart, didn't even give them to me until he felt we had exhausted so many options and I was at a serious breaking point. It's a low dose and I don't take it daily. I just went a few weeks without it actually and was very excited! But I still really worry about the addiction aspect. I read we get used to the quick fix and we think we need it. I can already see that in myself, even with how little I take it. He monitors my intake closely, we both agree it's not an ideal situation and only temporary. I worry I will never find a way to control these horrible panic attacks

My boss takes xanax just to sleep. His doctor literally gives them to him because he had complained that sometimes he had some issues sleeping. Now he can't sleep without them AT ALL. He's been on a higher dose than me for 7 years..just to sleep. I can't believe how easily some will just hand them out :/

Good luck with your journey!
Back when I took meds, and at the time had to I was such a mess even if they didn't work, I took this once or twice. I had one little blue pill for crashes I used once in a while, but I didn't like the way it just wiped away everything. Even in my overdrugged state I knew I didn't want to ever take this, even if I was really crashing. I'd even noticed how the milder pill I had for crash time made all the stress/worry/problems vanish, but then sometimes you dissapear them and it bites back since that way its just waiting in the shadows to come back.

My impression of all the 'doctors' was that they were happy if you were zoned out and quiet and prefered that to actually trying to find out what caused it.

One reason I do not take *anything* now since while there's some bumbs in life, you are supposed to learn from them, not dissapear them.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:57 AM
 
82 posts, read 80,988 times
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You will note that the article was written by a lay person. The psychiatrist he quotes does not deny that he has not taken into consideration all variables...e.g. there are far more people self-medicating with recreational drugs nowadays, there are far more people entering psychiatric treatment as it loses its stigma, there are more people mixing recreational drugs with their prescribed psychiatric and other drugs. Whenever you read scientific literature, you have to take into account its shortcomings and the variables that were not taken into consideration when the study was done. This opens up areas for other scientists to consider in their upcoming studies.


We are also beginning to see a shortage of mental health providers. There is a huge shortage of psychiatrists and qualified psychologists in most areas due to the poor reimbursement they receive from Medicare and insurances. Also, the funding is not there for psychiatrists to be able to purchase and use ECT machines, TMS, and other alternative forms of therapy. And...let's not forget the high cost of malpractice insurance that physicians face these days. The more alternative therapies (like ECT) that psychiatrists take on, the higher their malpractice insurance.


There goes every mother's dream that their daughter marries a rich doctor. Pretty soon they will all wish that their daughter marries a plumber!
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,164,132 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khloe View Post
You will note that the article was written by a lay person. The psychiatrist he quotes does not deny that he has not taken into consideration all variables...e.g. there are far more people self-medicating with recreational drugs nowadays, there are far more people entering psychiatric treatment as it loses its stigma, there are more people mixing recreational drugs with their prescribed psychiatric and other drugs. Whenever you read scientific literature, you have to take into account its shortcomings and the variables that were not taken into consideration when the study was done. This opens up areas for other scientists to consider in their upcoming studies.


We are also beginning to see a shortage of mental health providers. There is a huge shortage of psychiatrists and qualified psychologists in most areas due to the poor reimbursement they receive from Medicare and insurances. Also, the funding is not there for psychiatrists to be able to purchase and use ECT machines, TMS, and other alternative forms of therapy. And...let's not forget the high cost of malpractice insurance that physicians face these days. The more alternative therapies (like ECT) that psychiatrists take on, the higher their malpractice insurance.


There goes every mother's dream that their daughter marries a rich doctor. Pretty soon they will all wish that their daughter marries a plumber!
As I read it, this isn't what the problem is. It's first off, inadequate time to really listen. After the first appointment, and questions, you get a perscription. Then since its *assumed* it works, you get passing attention in the mill. My doctor had allocated ten minutes per person. The fact is these drugs do effect people differently, but sometimes they do more hurt. Especially when a patients describes a known bad effect, it SHOULD matter and be dealt with. But your ten minutes was set up for a new script and proof you were still mobile.

I can understand the situation where these expensive machines may not be available. But if patient comes in door, and says doctor, I can't sleep. If I skip the last dose I can sometimes, but not much.

Doctor should ask some more questions about the situation, and if, say, the patient takes one late and then stays up all night, try a new schedule. Does something they take push them to manic? Give them the time due.

It was not my experienced that this was expected, and as a result I came and got the prescription so nobody would hastle me, but what I did was easy myself off all of them. Even the doctor said I seemed a lot better. None of that should have been necessary if they really cared.
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:14 PM
 
632 posts, read 1,836,683 times
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Effexor (SNRI / SSRI) is a cuss word in our house. Hubby was prescribed it in 2006 for anxiety (eventual dose of 187.5 mg). Took me until 2013 to figure out the connection to his starting Effexor with all the crap that we started going through. He felt stuck in a miserable existence (no joy); had alcohol cravings and could no longer tell when he'd had too much to drink (a very scary, worrisome side-effect) because he'd never feel the buzz even when noticeably drunk; increased "shopping" (luckily nothing too expensive); inappropriate actions / lack of ability to inhibit himself / poor judgement; bi-polar behavior. I could go on-and-on. He hadn't been like this in 20 years of marriage, and I was at my wit's end. FINALLY figured out the connection and started weaning him off ever-so-slowly, and at about halfway off, he said he could feel the fog lift from his brain, and not too long after that, he came to me and apologized for all the crap he was remembering he'd put me through. I told him at the time that it was me or the meds. Unfortunately, now his anxiety is back and seems worse after almost a decade of being oblivious to ANY emotions. He's still not completely off the Effexor. He's below any therapeutic value, but he's still on 9 tiny little beads inside the lowest dose capsule (approx. 9 mg in his generic version). We decrease one bead at a time (4-6 week intervals) in hopes of his not having full-blown panic attacks or other issues. He gets incredibly irritable with each little drop. It's unreal the grip these meds can have on a person. They should never be prescribed unless by a psych. doc and then only when a person is suicidal or can't function at all. Exhaust all other therapies first because usually, once you go on these meds, it's a life sentence and you don't know if you're one of the unlucky ones until the bad stuff hits the fan. It's Russian roulette with your brain. My husband had anxiety following the death of his father. A short course of a benzo for "as needed" (to function at stressful events) and therapy to deal with the increased anxiety. But nope, let's reach for the Rx pad instead....which, btw, was written on an Effexor advert. pad after he'd received months of free samples. Can you tell I'm angry?
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,164,132 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabbyCats View Post
Effexor (SNRI / SSRI) is a cuss word in our house. Hubby was prescribed it in 2006 for anxiety (eventual dose of 187.5 mg). Took me until 2013 to figure out the connection to his starting Effexor with all the crap that we started going through. He felt stuck in a miserable existence (no joy); had alcohol cravings and could no longer tell when he'd had too much to drink (a very scary, worrisome side-effect) because he'd never feel the buzz even when noticeably drunk; increased "shopping" (luckily nothing too expensive); inappropriate actions / lack of ability to inhibit himself / poor judgement; bi-polar behavior. I could go on-and-on. He hadn't been like this in 20 years of marriage, and I was at my wit's end. FINALLY figured out the connection and started weaning him off ever-so-slowly, and at about halfway off, he said he could feel the fog lift from his brain, and not too long after that, he came to me and apologized for all the crap he was remembering he'd put me through. I told him at the time that it was me or the meds. Unfortunately, now his anxiety is back and seems worse after almost a decade of being oblivious to ANY emotions. He's still not completely off the Effexor. He's below any therapeutic value, but he's still on 9 tiny little beads inside the lowest dose capsule (approx. 9 mg in his generic version). We decrease one bead at a time (4-6 week intervals) in hopes of his not having full-blown panic attacks or other issues. He gets incredibly irritable with each little drop. It's unreal the grip these meds can have on a person. They should never be prescribed unless by a psych. doc and then only when a person is suicidal or can't function at all. Exhaust all other therapies first because usually, once you go on these meds, it's a life sentence and you don't know if you're one of the unlucky ones until the bad stuff hits the fan. It's Russian roulette with your brain. My husband had anxiety following the death of his father. A short course of a benzo for "as needed" (to function at stressful events) and therapy to deal with the increased anxiety. But nope, let's reach for the Rx pad instead....which, btw, was written on an Effexor advert. pad after he'd received months of free samples. Can you tell I'm angry?
I remember when I was on I believe five meds, for bp2. I had quietly cut back on several which zonked me so much I couldn't function, but the mood control drug was being backed down but not out. I eventually matched it to the episodes of just passing out I was having. Each time it was within an hour of taking the med. But I needed something. I used st john's wort, but it just zoned me out. I tried cutting the pharma stuff down to minimum but it didn't help.

My wake up point was when I started just passing out with no warning. I'd feel so lethargic I couldn't even sit up for several hours, an indication of blood pressure being effected, and was in a huge fog for more hours. My medical doctor said it was a physical reaction, and was agreeable to the way I was slowly, very slowly, backing out of all the meds. Then like with your husband, about half way to none I just started feeling aware and awake and the world changed. I did and do still have bad times, but had a bottle of st.John's wort and would take one. They are pharm quality and the one little pill would take the edge off and give me a chance to pop out of it.

But a few months ago someone shared a similar story. But they were advised to try Magnesium and D3. The magnesium MUST be chelated and pure. I use a brand I found on amazon called Viva labs. I take two in the afternoon when I'm prone to the blahs, and if needed, two more in the evening. I was astonished by the boast in mood from the suppliment. The afternoon dumps just dissapeared. I felt functional and energetic but not manic. I still consider that a very lucky day I read that message since its changed things in my life very much.

Maybe your husband should try the D3 and magnesium. These are the components which your brain uses for things like mood control. Its been studied and apparently many people are deficent in it, and find a huge improvement when its used. Just make sure it is the 100 percent chelated form, which the body readily absorbs.

I really think the regular treatments are over used because its easy. My appointments were scheduled to be ten minues, long enough to sign for the next perscription. It annoyed them a lot when I'd sit there and demand they listen to the problems I was having, even if they could only suggest taking more meds. I suppose at first, when someone is just diagnosed, it may need a hammer. But what I found was as I got used to not being depressed, my own behavorial triggers didn't work as bad. The side effect of the meds still had an effect, but when I replaced it with magnesium I was able to remove all of them.

The brand I use came from amazon, and works wonders, and it would do no harm to try and see if your husband is helped as much as I was. There's several brands. I bought the brand called Viva, and they work well, and are both chelated and with NO coating. What it gives me is a feeling of peace and normality. It doesn't fix problems, but gives you a clear enough mind you have a chance to yourself.

I hope this is helpful. Its my own experience but it mirrors what others have said and doesn't over do the stimulation either.

Last edited by nightbird47; 02-27-2017 at 01:56 AM..
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Constitutional USA, zn.8A
684 posts, read 434,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenrr View Post
"Mental health has declined
as prescriptions for antidepressants and other drugs keep surging
True.
so you'd think that people would practice moment-to-moment every Healthy belief, & Attitude possible.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:06 AM
 
2,468 posts, read 3,113,842 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 rainbows View Post
True.
so you'd think that people would practice moment-to-moment every Healthy belief, & Attitude possible.
But most of us want a quick fix - without having to do ANYTHING.

"Here, take this pill, to solve all of your problems. And by the way, the side effects are worse than the cure, so also take these other pills to help with the side effects. And by the way, this is a lot of money in our pocket, thank you for your business."

It's really sad, but really it begins with wanting to cheat - trusting the medical & drug industry to solve OUR problems. Pain has a purpose - both physical and emotional - to tell us something is wrong. A lot of meds just turn off those important pain signals, so we're not only clueless about what needs fixing, we're also now having to deal with a host of side effects.

Either funny or sad, depending on how you look at it:



But I agree with you.
It makes sense to embrace healthy approaches - to learn to use the placebo effect in our favor, to exercise regularly, eat healthy, sleep well, drink lots of water, etc.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:17 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,858,990 times
Reputation: 33164
OP is basing this information on a blog? FAIL. Once again, she, among other people, are bashing the mental health profession because it's difficult to objectively measure the need for these medications. Is there a need for them? Absolutely. My dearly departed grandmother, a Depression baby, told me about a few people she knew way back when who desperately needed drugs such as SSRIs. One of them even committed suicide from depression.

And drugs for physical conditions fail as well and can cause awful side effects yet people don't deny there is a need for them. Our brains get sick just as the rest of our bodies do. I do not understand why people still view mental illness as a personal failure or sign of weakness and that people don't really need medication when there is something clearly wrong mentally. It's not always possible to just "snap out of it."
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,164,132 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
OP is basing this information on a blog? FAIL. Once again, she, among other people, are bashing the mental health profession because it's difficult to objectively measure the need for these medications. Is there a need for them? Absolutely. My dearly departed grandmother, a Depression baby, told me about a few people she knew way back when who desperately needed drugs such as SSRIs. One of them even committed suicide from depression.

And drugs for physical conditions fail as well and can cause awful side effects yet people don't deny there is a need for them. Our brains get sick just as the rest of our bodies do. I do not understand why people still view mental illness as a personal failure or sign of weakness and that people don't really need medication when there is something clearly wrong mentally. It's not always possible to just "snap out of it."
As someone who was on psych drugs for some five years, and found after removing them that in essense they'd simply driven all the reasons why my brain acted the way it did into hiding, but sucked away everything else, that I had a much better life with a few quirks and NO meds after. I take nothing but nutritional suppliments. I take some because due to digestive problems,, I have limited absorbtion of foods AND drugs.

As it didn't and couldn't work, the meds would never produce the objective. But it did cause other, more damaging effects. Yes, meds can help people, but they shouldn't automatically be made a lifelong treatment. Some may need it, some not, but anyone should be regularly accessed to determine if the drug was truely doing as intended, and even if it is, was it overpowering everything else. Also, patients who say they are having trouble with meds or a med MUST be listened to and fairly dealt with, including their making the choice of what happens. Too many pros see patients who look clean and neat and quiet and seemingly functional on that one appointement every six months to a year and think everything is going fine. They'll never see how they either don't sleep for hours or sleep a huge amount of their life, or have breakfast and seem awake and alive, then take their blanding and the whole personality changes. This review should include one of parents/kids/friends who live with them who see this and do not like the living vegetable their loved one becomes. Who want more than a pill dispensery. It also needs to include the patient. Find the real them, and ask about how they feel. If they feel zoned out and lost, then don't just refill the bottle.

There should also be a FULL evaluation of the health of the patient, and especially what they are deficent in. B12 deficency will make you tired and depressed and blah. I've discovered that the two magnesium pills with a D3 as a chaser eliminated the late afternoon, early evening mental mood slump. Fix the health of the patient and then *see* if said patients needs all the heavy drugs. Or would good nutrition including suppliments make some counseling the base treatment? Or at the most, a lot *fewer* drugs.

What people who see it from the outside in don't realize is that no two people will react the same and the overburdened machine does not give either of them the time to find out if the pill is working, if its too strong, or not enough, if it zaps them of feeling, if they can't sleep, and so on and ultimately the goal being taking the minimum they need along with readily available people help when needed. You need to give patients what is needed to grow stronger, not just more dependent.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:03 AM
 
632 posts, read 1,836,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I remember when I was on I believe five meds, for bp2. I had quietly cut back on several which zonked me so much I couldn't function, but the mood control drug was being backed down but not out. I eventually matched it to the episodes of just passing out I was having. Each time it was within an hour of taking the med. ..........
.....
.....
.....I really think the regular treatments are over used because its easy. My appointments were scheduled to be ten minues, long enough to sign for the next perscription. It annoyed them a lot when I'd sit there and demand they listen to the problems I was having, even if they could only suggest taking more meds. I suppose at first, when someone is just diagnosed, it may need a hammer. But what I found was as I got used to not being depressed, my own behavorial triggers didn't work as bad. The side effect of the meds still had an effect, but when I replaced it with magnesium I was able to remove all of them.
It's a good thing you were self-aware and figured it out yourself. Too many people, even unmedicated, aren't self-aware enough to pay attention to what's happening in their bodies and why. My husband is not one, but especially when he was a zombie thanks to Effexor. Most people who "change" on these meds aren't aware of it. It's like the lobster in a pot of water then set on the stove and heated up. They can't see it happening to themselves. I think any body who is put on these mind/mood/LIFE-altering meds should have a partner (or parent or trusted friend) who is also made aware of what to look for. My husband never reported ANYTHING back to his psychiatrist. I think anyone who is married needs to have spousal awareness of what some side-effects might be. Google about SSRIs and divorce. There is a "relationships" thread at a forum called survivingantidepressants dot org

I researched beneficial supplements to support the brain/mood during withdrawal. I have hubby on D3 and Magnesium, BUT he doesn't take any in the afternoon. I'll have to have him try that, thanks! He's on a good magnesium, but I'll take a look at yours. Sometimes different forms work better than others, and experimenting to see which is the best match is good (I simply put him on the one I take). He also takes a B-complex and extra B1 (benfotiamine, because he drinks), CoQ10, Omega-3, and celery seed extract (blood pressure aid).

Among other things, one physical side-effect was extreme Restless Leg Syndrome (I called it JERKING LEG syndrome because it was so violent in bed at night. ALL freakin' night long, his legs would jerk and kick out and he would toss and turn and thrash about and "scratch" at the bed with his hand.). We (I) didn't know it was a side-effect, and I tried to get him to the doctor about it. He also developed sleep apnea while on it (because of the weight gain while on it?) and it was horrible as neither one of us could sleep (I had to escape every night to the couch). No amount of begging could get him to go to the doctor. On at least the RLS, I'm now very happy about that. I came across a woman whose husband was on Effexor then went on another drug for the RLS and yet another drug as a sleep aid. In the end, they had 3 meds to withdraw from and had huge issues. Anyway, the very first side-effect to drop by the wayside when he started withdrawing was the RLS. One night I noticed that he simply did not move around at all. I was scared for a few seconds--I thought he'd died! And when he'd reached that half-way point in his withdrawal and his "awareness" came back, he let me schedule him a sleep study. He came home extremely apologetic for not believing me--his study showed he averaged 110.8 apnea events PER HOUR. That's 2 every minute. On Effexor, I'd never have gotten him there because he didn't care enough about himself. Eventually, it'd have killed him in some way--either the alcohol or the stress from living with no restorative sleep / oxygen deprivation on his brain, etc.

Except for dire need to function or save a depressed life, these drugs should not be used OR used with hyper-vigilance for side-effects (that the patients themselves don't usually report!). The side-effects are sometimes way worse....or the withdrawals are worse.....OR, they have to remain on them forever. I personally know women who were put on Effexor or Pristique (sp?) for MENOPAUSAL symptoms. Hello! Menopause is a natural event which will end, but these meds and/or their side-effects/withdrawal can potentially be much worse and last much longer.

I know there are people who are helped by these meds. I know there are people who manage to get off successfully. The thing is, you don't know if you're going to be one of the unlucky ones until it's too late! Our experience was not good, yet it was better than some whose marriage didn't survive.
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