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My wife, who just happens to be Bipolar type II, is not a project. She's simply a smart, independent and capable woman; an individual, who just happens to be bipolar. The disorder doesn't define her. She spent many years as a midwife delivering hundreds of healthy babies at home births. She then went to work for our former state as a political and legislative analyst (also my profession) and did a remarkable job pushing bills through the Legislature that provided and expanded important protections for seniors, provided licensing for lay midwives, protected veterans services and did other important things.
But by all means continue to stigmatize people with bipolar disorder if it pleases you. Talk about irresponsible... The good news is that ignorance can be fixed!
Bipolar II is innocuous. You got lucky.
My mother put a loaded weapon in my mouth when I was a teenager. She's untreated BP I.
So, yeah. Life is short. I see bipolar manic behavior and I will avoid that person.
My mother put a loaded weapon in my mouth when I was a teenager. She's untreated BP I.
So, yeah. Life is short. I see bipolar manic behavior and I will avoid that person.
It has worked for me-I'm still alive.
You don't know anything! No, it isn't innocuous! It's a serious mental illness as well! They get those keen senses and intuition and brilliance when hypo-manic. I thought that scares you? You think they all use those gifts for evil .... that's the kind my bf had that you said is sociopathic.
It would be like .... if some terrible magic gave us all on this thread bi-polar. the same kind. Pick BPI. Some of us would use our gifts from it for good, some would use it for bad. Some would take their meds and do other things to be better, some wouldn't care or could not be bothered. Some are nice, some are not, so how they are with bp will also vary. This is very basic.
My view was "colored" by growing up with a psychopath BP1, rapid cycling mother who refused treatment. I don't give a rat's behind what books say. I have the scars to back up what I stated.
The ED is a cake walk compared to what I grew up with.
You think bipolars are so great, go live with one just like my mother and then get back to me.
My father was raised by a literal psychopath. No BP or other illness. Just a GD psychopath, plain and simple. His scars are worse than yours, I will bet my life on it. But he doesn't go around the world the way you do. He has empathy. Loads and loads. Because everyone acts differently, comes out differently whether it's from having an illness or being subject of one.
He has scars he won't speak of. To anyone. They will go to his grave. His father literally shot at him attempting to kill him. He didn't just threaten.
He has said a million times he wouldn't have left my mother if he had known she was sick. and he means it. But he was already re-married, too late.
He came from a kind of hell few can imagine but he would have stuck by my mother had he known she was ill and needed treatment. He still did in his way, even after being divorced. They became like good friends.
My Uncle chose therapy. My Dad drank away the pain until he realized drinking was inflicting pain on us, so he stopped. And worked himself out his own way. I feel bad for you you cannot do this. I hope you do seek therapy.
It doesn't matter whether one's mindset is bad from illness or experience, it's how you deal with it. I remain full of empathy after being raised by an untreated BP mother and a raging alcoholic of a father. It's a choice. I got therapy for it. And put it in the past. I would not inflict my past pain onto others, especially patients. THAT is messed UP.
I really wish you hadn't said that. It angers me. Those people under your care are not your mother. It's a disorder/mal-adaption that you see them that way and treat them that way.
You're completely overlooking or minimizing the risk of relapse that is present even ON meds. Family members need to know what to be on the lookout for, what the expectations are for their loved one, how they can help, how they CAN'T help, and how to keep their own sanity and boundaries firmly in place when living with or around a mentally ill loved one, even if that loved one is currently successfully treated - bipolar disorder is a lifetime diagnosis and requires a life time of treatment, and often involves relapses.
How likely is a person to have a relapse though? This was something people would tell me when I was dating my ex. They would act as though she were some kind of time bomb and that the longer she was doing well, the more overdue she was for a major episode. But does BP really work that way? And is this limited to type 1?
I find your experiences are rather innocuous. You appear not to know much about codependency.
You need to read on codependency. Start with "Codependent No More" by Melody Beatty. It's an old book, but it's a good one. It tells it like it is and avoids excessive psycho babble. Those are the people who will walk into a room and gravitate to the one person in the room who is going to give them grief, aka "the frog". That was my father. He was a textbook case.
I think that Bipolar Disorder is over diagnosed just like a plethora of other disorders. TRUE BP's are indeed brilliant, and keen observers of human behavior. In my book that makes them dangerous. They are master manipulators. They don't have a conscience.
My mother put a loaded revolver into my mouth and threatened to pull the trigger. Later on, she bragged about it. No, she wasn't hospitalized or arrested. My father protected her. I was a teenager and I didn't know what to do then.
So, forgive me if I don't share your outlook. I always got assigned the nuttiest people in the ED. Perhaps because my attitude was "you're an amateur", you don't know what crazy is. Push it and I'll show you. They didn't mess with me. I learned well from the psycho at home.
No, actually I won't forgive you. Cause all I see in your posts is a strong bias against anyone with BP, which seems to be based primarily on your experiences with your mother. And to say BP 2 is innocuous is offensive and makes me question if you really know as much as you claim. I'm sorry for everything that happened with your mother. But please stop acting like that makes you an expert on BP. And what's with all this talk about codependency? Are you telling me that I was in a codependent relationship with my ex because she had BP? If so, please tell us how you arrived at that conclusion.
All of human nature exists on a continuum, particular to cultural norms.
Currently western culture represses emotions and pathologizes them, while making narcissism more normative.
As a result, people who don't fit into those cultural norms get labeled: bipolar, borderline, etc.
(*yes, there are true organic conditions, but these are much more rare)
When people who are sensitive to an interrelated world learn how to balance their needs in an unrelated world, medication is often unnecessary, their creativity flows and they are happy and balanced... and amazing, with a natural ebb and flow.
Highly skilled therapy teaches awareness of subtle internal cues, subsequent external adaptation, mind/body skills, nutritional and sleep balance, and alignment with a deeper sense of self.
Usually a combination of nature/nurture, there's often a sensitivity of the nervous system in these individuals and a lack of understanding in parental attunement (and in societal structures where human beings are expected to confine themselves to norms which exacerbates and does not teach integration.)
They are inward looking because their natural adaptation has not been supported. When that happens (as is necessary for all healthy humans) they become well-balanced in relationships.
When we stop trying to put round pegs into square holes, and understand the beauty of the individual, we will see less "mental health" disorders and a healthier society overall.
Until then, we will keep looking outside ourselves and pathologizing struggles for balance that have a deeper meaning.
Nothing will change beyond the surface or the 'better' pill until we quit trying to force stuff round pegs into square holes. The round pegs learn what to say that makes the square pegs think it worked. But all it did was teach how better to hide. And the *real* things which that kind of baggage leaves behind never get addressed. The 'system' is too busy making newer and more profitable pills to fix it all.
And this picture of the dysfuntional system is also very true. I'm one of those people who like to lay out a system with all its connections and open spaces, and find it deeply fascinating how they make a very different and complex picture than the one you miss if you don't look deep. We live in an interdependent world, growing moreso every day, and there is much opportunity to grow. The leaps in human culture have always come by mixing the new with the old, and a new way of seeing with the old. One thing I've noticed is that even in ancient cultures which left records behind, the visionaries and non conformists get pushed to the side, or worse. No matter the culture or the time, those who question the norm are looked upon as outsiders in a club with the doors locked. Some change that in time, some not. What's different today is that we have the ability to record and connect to everything around us. It has opened a new space for those who don't follow the official drummer to be seen and recognized, even become net stars. But they remain oddballs which are vaguely risky, as if even the least perceptive among us understand that first opening that door means a measure of acceptance, and allows in change.
What else is odd is the way overall, the 'normals' accept the subcultures and might even see them as entertainment, but because they're 'different' and not part of the norm. So long as they remain off to the side, they can accept, like a side show at the fair. When it gets personal, they fight hard to protect their shield of values and perceptions, even if it might lead to a rupture in the family.
And its so easy to look at a group of people you don't know or understand, but seem vaguely dangerous to your kind of world, and see they are put together wrong, because you never have to look closer once your sure its not allowed in your circle.
Those today who feel the pull to a slightly different drummer have much more company. I love that I can find filk music all over you tube, (folk and contemporary forms of music that exists in a sci fi or fantasy world). Back when I discovered it it was the songs sung at the filk after the parties died that evening at a sci fi convention. Now its so delightful to listen to them from a room party like one I might have been at. And yet, it was this private place then. Now, its opened the front door, and in some small little ways it wouldn't *feel* the same.
I was lucky. Mom could tell I wasn't 'standard kid' and she understood since she wasn't either. I had friends but the close ones were the ones more like me. When the moment when your group of friends hit the age when they divide out into a bigger world, those would be the ones we want to stay. And we seek them out, both old and new. It's a place we don't have to explain ourselves. Its a place where the ones around you will get what you say.
We've been expanding into subcultures since the sixties, and with the infusion of the net, it has given them more ways of finding new members. But there is also this overall culture, and they exist within it. We live in a golden age for the 'different' right now, but its relationship between the 'norm' and the 'differing' is in transition. It's given individuals who find a place to fit a gift, but also further defined them by bits and pieces, not who they are.
I believe that some of the 'conditions' which we call mental disorders are better treated by helping individuals to learn about themselves, and use the powers within to find a peaceful spot to live. If its not just like we think people 'should' be its okay if it works to give them a secure space to live. We really don't all need to be the same, and lose a lot when we insist on it since wearing a mask just makes us hide even deeper.
I not only stopped using the drugs which were a medical disastor the 'doctor' never seemed to get, but found other ways to redirect things. And if it was a bad day and I needed quiet, I gave it to myself. I've learned so much of my own body/mind cues and can redirect the surprises. This is because I quit thinking of me as damaged, and accepted that I'm who I am, and took back my life. I heard plenty of 'you shouldn't do that', but the last pdoc I talked to was actually very pleased. Maybe I didn't/don't do it the 'right' way, but he couldn't argue that I was doing quite well. It was a win for him.
Sadly, I think its programmed into us as humans that we need to group in our herd, and when nobody encourages breaking free we can get swallowed up by it as well.
Last edited by nightbird47; 04-18-2017 at 10:10 AM..
How likely is a person to have a relapse though? This was something people would tell me when I was dating my ex. They would act as though she were some kind of time bomb and that the longer she was doing well, the more overdue she was for a major episode. But does BP really work that way? And is this limited to type 1?
There's other behaviors which come along with bp, both kinds but more notably in bp1. The symptoms of bp2 are often very subtle, and sometimes treatment over does it to feeling robotic. BP2 is actually much harder to achieve 'even statis' than with 1. Small things build, but can drop or feed moods in incriments too.
I find that I can chill out for only so long, and the pent up 'things' need to be let out. I generally hold back emotional moments, as they open a door I don't need to open, but letting it loose lets out the collected frustration and so forth, and I see things much more clearly, and the fears have gone. There's fundamental life issues which can push the button, but they aren't every day. And I don't make these 'moments' a show either. My dogs and cats are happy to help, but they'll keep private what needs to be.
I will build up to the moment I just have to open the door and freshen the air, but mostly I get more quiet. There's a few triggers which will take me there too, but I can push out the panic by calling on my calm place. Yes, there's a problem. Yes, something has to happen. But the rest is fears and dark places , and they fade in the light.
I know friends who are more type 1. They seem pent up and energized. One was an ex. We'd be good for a while, and then he'd just collect the issues until they went boom. I'd collect them and stuff them away, and it would be the last thing, significant or not, which tripped the wire. Often it was him. We were together for five years, and remain very close friends, but from a distance. I never knew what time something I said was going to pull off the top of the collected general frustration. We'd have a huge fight. Someone would threaten to leave. Lots of yelling. He'd go for a while and I'd be really tired and by the next day we were back to square one. For both of us, living alone has been a good situation.
Most people I've met who are bp are type 2. It can seem much the same from a distance, but the saving up over time is what causes the explosion. And when its spent, its over. All that's left is feeling drained. I have heard there are typical behaviors with 2, but its hard to see them in yourself.
Most bp2 sorts I know hit the point of cleaing out the collection sooner and quicker and in the case of harm, are more likely to harm themselves over someone else. I find after that I see more clearly and can take the 'problem' (whatever it is) which is causing the collection of negativity apart and remove its power. Bp 1 tends to be much more explosive, and with more 'normal' inbetween.
OK, you're forgetting again that I knew all that. I was the one who 'diagnosed' her to begin with (she went to Dr. after I told her and showed her the criteria).
I knew everything to look for and it never happened. You are forgetting that my mother was stable on meds and never once time ever had a mental health crisis since.
Why would I re-take classes on thing I already knew or need support for something that wasn't happening?
Yup. She took meds her entire life. And no relapses. That is what I have been saying.
She was the one helping everyone else. This does not apply to everyone. Again, the people in NAMI classes and meetings are there because their loved ones are like yours. You didn't get to meet the ones whose loved ones were spectacularly treated with meds and went on to live a totally normal life because those people didn't need support!
Or the ones that didn't even need meds, like my ex. And the post above by someone that was ignored. Her 11 year old needs no meds or therapy. That might change, I am sure she knows, but you are ignoring everything that doesn't fit into your stereotype.
You probably work with BP people or are around them in some other way and you don't even know because they are functioning perfectly. As perfectly as any human can, anyway.
There are loads of BP in careers that require drive and creativity and taking risks. Sales, business owners, stock brokers, politicians.
Have you read the book on the connection between Bipolar and creative genius? Or any of the ones that weren't centered around the type of BPI YOU are used to dealing with?
Your family members have schizophrenia on top of BP, the brother. And your mother from what you wrote has overlapping personality disorder. Yet you still use them as your stereotype. It's rather mind-boggling, actually. All your opinions are based on people who have struggles all their lives with it. Which many do, I know that, but you are ignoring the ones that don't.
I have not downplayed anything. I made that very clear. However I won't allow your version to stand for how everyone with BPI is.
Sigh. I am not saying that EVERYONE with bipolar disorder is the same. In fact, I've posted source after source after source - having nothing to do with any of my family members - to back every assertion I've made.
The sad truth is that there is a very high relapse rate among people with bipolar disorder - even the ones who respond well initially to meds and/or therapy. And I'm not basing that on my own personal experience - but on the many sources that I've listed.
You are the one basing your assertions on your own personal experiences. I don't think I've seen you post a single objective source to back anything you've said.
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They get those keen senses and intuition and brilliance when hypo-manic. I thought that scares you? You think they all use those gifts for evil .... that's the kind my bf had that you said is sociopathic. 
