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And when you think about it, the so called medicines man makes now are just rip offs of real medicine that God made. Aren't nearly all pharm drugs created using plants and such?
Just about, yeah. On the other hand, the pharmaceutical companies can guarantee dosage control. Plants can't. When you make tea out of willow bark, you have no way of knowing how much acetylsalicylic acid your cup contains. So sure, it -might- get rid of your headache. Or it might not be strong enough. Or, you could end up with a nosebleed from too much of it. With an aspirin, you know exactly how much acetylsalicylic acid you're putting into your system.
The same with foxglove vs. digitalis. You could boil the roots of a foxglove plant and hope that it works to prevent a heart attack. Or, you could take pharmaceutical digitalis, and be assured that it will do what it is intended to do, in the exact same way, every time you take it.
Even the herbal companies don't have any controls over their dosages. One manufacturer's valerian root capsule might be made completely differently from another's. Processed differently. Extracted differently. The capsules themselves might be made differently. Different fillers, different sources of valerian, containing different percentages of chemical compounds...
But with pharmaceuticals, the batches are tested and controlled to ensure that what they -say- you are getting is -exactly- what you are getting. Of course, even pharmaceuticals, and even the FDA make mistakes. However, at least they have these measures in place. Your garden has no such measures, nor do the herbal supplement companies, nor your teapot.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
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Originally Posted by AnonChick
Just about, yeah. On the other hand, the pharmaceutical companies can guarantee dosage control. Plants can't. When you make tea out of willow bark, you have no way of knowing how much acetylsalicylic acid your cup contains. So sure, it -might- get rid of your headache. Or it might not be strong enough. Or, you could end up with a nosebleed from too much of it. With an aspirin, you know exactly how much acetylsalicylic acid you're putting into your system.
The same with foxglove vs. digitalis. You could boil the roots of a foxglove plant and hope that it works to prevent a heart attack. Or, you could take pharmaceutical digitalis, and be assured that it will do what it is intended to do, in the exact same way, every time you take it.
Even the herbal companies don't have any controls over their dosages. One manufacturer's valerian root capsule might be made completely differently from another's. Processed differently. Extracted differently. The capsules themselves might be made differently. Different fillers, different sources of valerian, containing different percentages of chemical compounds...
But with pharmaceuticals, the batches are tested and controlled to ensure that what they -say- you are getting is -exactly- what you are getting. Of course, even pharmaceuticals, and even the FDA make mistakes. However, at least they have these measures in place. Your garden has no such measures, nor do the herbal supplement companies, nor your teapot.
AnonChick, the point you make is valid to the extent that most people are at the mercy of nature and its whims when using plant based medicines, but anyone with enough motivation and common sense can figure out that there are ways to experiment with the unknowns of strength and potency in things like willow bark and valerian and such until they find appropriate dosages. So many people buy into the idea that medicine is the ultimate mystery that they are utterly incapable of comprehending and so they are, indeed, taking their chances with commercially prepared plant based medicines which do come with the inconsistencies you stated.
As for digitalis/foxglove, anyone in their right mind who is not an extremely experienced herbalist would never consider the idea of self medicating with it. I think that you have made a very dangerous statement in saying, "You could boil the roots of a foxglove plant and hope that it works to prevent a heart attack." In the first place, someone desperate enough might read those words and believe them, and end up killing themselves. I have worked in cardiac medicine, and as far as I know, digitalis will not prevent a heart attack. It is used to alter cardiac arrhythmias originating in the upper chambers of the heart, such as atrial fibrillation and paroxysmal atrial tachycardia, but will do nothing to prevent a myocardial infarction or "heart attack".
One very important point that you seem to have missed is that the overwhelming majority of modern pHARMaceuticals are synthesized from petrochemicals. You are comparing what could go wrong if you take the wrong amount of a plant derived substance vs what could go right if you ingest a carefully controlled dose of gasoline. I realize that this is a grossly oversimplified analogy, but I'm pretty sure we are not meant to be eating petroleum, the stuff that kills off wildlife when it gets spilled into the ocean.
That said, I admit that I take pHARMaceuticals. I have taken as many as seven prescriptions contemporaneously, and am happy to say that I am currently down to only three, and am acutely aware every time I pop one of those pills into my mouth that I am eating some derivation of something that is supposed to be used as fuel for the internal combustion engine.
I'm pretty confident that if I were to dump the contents of my levothyroxine bottle in my car's gas tank, the result would not be pretty. Nor my Ambien, nor the Dilantin a relative has to take for epilepsy, nor the coumadin for another relative's gentic blood-clot factor issues. I'm guessing that aspirin, alieve, tylenol, and most - no, make that all - opiates - are not derived from, nor made out of, petroleum.
The empty capsules might well be. So might be the coating of an "easy swallow" tab. There might even be minute amounts of mineral oil in the completed compound. As for the sentence you took out of my post, notice the "and hope" part. Perhaps I should have bolded it. One could try something and HOPE it works. That doesn't mean it would work, and it doesn't mean it can work. It doesn't mean it's supposed to work. But I've heard people actually believe digitalis prevents heart attacks. And since digitalis is derived from foxglove, it's an easy assumption for the ignorant who reject pharmaceuticals to conclude.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
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Originally Posted by AnonChick
I'm pretty confident that if I were to dump the contents of my levothyroxine bottle in my car's gas tank, the result would not be pretty. Nor my Ambien, nor the Dilantin a relative has to take for epilepsy, nor the coumadin for another relative's gentic blood-clot factor issues. I'm guessing that aspirin, alieve, tylenol, and most - no, make that all - opiates - are not derived from, nor made out of, petroleum.
The empty capsules might well be. So might be the coating of an "easy swallow" tab. There might even be minute amounts of mineral oil in the completed compound. As for the sentence you took out of my post, notice the "and hope" part. Perhaps I should have bolded it. One could try something and HOPE it works. That doesn't mean it would work, and it doesn't mean it can work. It doesn't mean it's supposed to work. But I've heard people actually believe digitalis prevents heart attacks. And since digitalis is derived from foxglove, it's an easy assumption for the ignorant who reject pharmaceuticals to conclude.
One phrase says a lot. "the ignorant who reject pharmaceuticals" How I love having my intelligence insulted first thing in the morning. WTG!
You don't reject pharmaceuticals. You claimed that you take them, yourself. Which means you would not be one of the set of "the ignorant who reject pharmaceuticals." I was referring to anyone who can be included in that demographic. You are not one of those people.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
You don't reject pharmaceuticals. You claimed that you take them, yourself. Which means you would not be one of the set of "the ignorant who reject pharmaceuticals." I was referring to anyone who can be included in that demographic. You are not one of those people.
No, I definitely am one of those people. I currently take prescription drugs but have made the decision to reject them all for my own personal use, and am working on getting off of them. This is the result of being severely harmed by a drug and crawling down the rabbit hole of the events which led to this happening, and finding that a lot of the activity that got this drug on the market and into my body was criminal. The drug company and at least one of the researchers have been convicted on racketeering charges related directly to their marketing of the drug.
I personally am not concerned with what others put into their bodies, and I admit that there are drugs that save lives. They just aren't for me. A drug nearly killed me. I'm done.
Ok... so that is what those dizzy spells are called that I am having (Zaps). Either way... I was on 30mg of Celexa and not liking it AT ALL !! I would have problems getting up in the a.m. and having VERY strange and vivid dreams at night. I am also going through menepause and experiencing all of those yucky side affects... so I asked to get off of the Celexa.... so my dr. just said... "just stop taking it"... so I did. WOWWY ZOWWY.... I am having a REALLY hard time with the zaps and headaches and strange feelings. I am going on my 3rd week of being off of it and I see no end in sight.... wonder if I should cut up my leftover pills and start tapering them as well ?? Any thoughts????
so I asked to get off of the Celexa.... so my dr. just said... "just stop taking it"... so I did.
OMG..
I recently weaned off of Celexa as well. It was pure hell. Every minute of the day I felt like I was going to puke, which was interrupted with intense episodes of dizziness and vertigo. Worst week of my life.
I was reading all of your guys messages and I have a few questions. I have a 15 year old daughter. She has been taking celexa for about 1 year and a few months. She was doing fine, but now she is getting really dizzy to the point that she can not stand up on her own. She said that she is having trouble concentrating and that the world looks like it is going slow or something like that. She is really cranky right now when she feels like this. She is on the highest dosage right now. Is it possible that she doesn't need it anymore and that is why she is feeling this way? Also what is zapping?
I was on the generic of celexa (citalopram) I just stopped taking it cold turkey and did not have any side effects. I was taking 20mg. I stopped because I felt I did not need it anymore. It's been 2 years. Am I the only one who did not have a side effect ? or is the generic not the same? In fact I have never had any side effects from any medications I have taken antibiotics included.
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