Door opens for Cuba travel (Miami, Hollywood: how much, house, standard of living)

[cixcell]

with mexico tourism shutting down every port in cuba would be a carnival destination

[boxus]

Ending the embargo would increase greatly the number of people going to Cuba, the results of this would be a tide so great that there would be no way that the current regime would be able to hold it back. They could still stay in power, but major reforms would occur. The wave of ideas is unstoppable, and there would be a flash point where the regime would either have to change the rules, or collapse.

Embargo's have never worked, never. There is not one instance where an embargo has accomplished its goals.

If we look at recent examples, China, Vietnam, the USSR; we see increasing our presence, increasing trade and relations is what led to reforms in China and Vietnam, and the collapse of the USSR. For decades before, the blockade style policies did not work.

Given that China has just as bad, if not worst human rights violations and is a much larger military threat to the US; Libya was (still is?) ran by a known terror supporter; North Korea is ran by a maniac with almost absolute rule and oppression; Saudi Arabia has horrific human rights abuses and zero democratic ideals; an America is allowed to travel to all of these, yet not to Cuba.

[Manolón]

It would make communists nomenklatura and their foreign partners extremelly rich.

When they have more money, repression and anti-capitalist laws become more rigid.

It has happened many times during the last 50 years.

Tourism does not change any political dictatorship, in fact tourism saved Franco.

Also saved Castro after he opened tourism in 1992.

[Manolón]

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

Ok, lifting the embargo is something that definetly will help the Cuban people but beliving that the Cuban System or that Sean Penn, Oliver Stone and all his squad will change is kind of like a joke. Isn't? Those liberals in Hollywood wont change till all their properties are seized by a leftist dictatorship. Aka similar to what happened to the intelectual Cuban elite when they were claiming Castro will bring change.

Come on, Europeans and Canadians have been going to Cuba for decades now and what has happened. Dont get me wrong, American, Canadians, and Europeans have all the right to invest and travel freely to Cuba. It is not their problem! If the cuban people do not wake up from their Stocolm syndrome why then a foreigner should wake them up.

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Those liberals are revolting and the worse of them all are those Pastors for Peace, Lucius Skywalker and his acolytes.

No, they won't change.

One thing that baffles me out of my mind is that those liberals proclaim they are "antifascist" and hate Hitler...

Cuba is a fascist country and all the propaganda comes from Goebbels. They have their version of Hitler Jungend (Pioneros and Ujotacé), Block Watch (CDR), SA (Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida), SS (MININT), Peace through Joy (Campismos), etc, etc.

If I were Jewish, like Stone, I would not admire a man whose bedtime reading is Meinkampf. When you leave the airport, you are greeted by Goebbels' propaganda..."The future is ours"..."Our children will continue the fight for the Fatherland", etc.

Eurpeans can travel freely and have the right to invest and get ripped off by the Cuban government.

No, American tourism won't change a thing.

There's no embargo whatsoever.

80 percent of Cuban food is imported from the United States and 70 percent of Cuban GNP comes from remittances from the United States.

You can find Coca Cola and many American brands, Direct TV is in many houses in Havana and Miami TV is a great hit (either though illegal cable or dish antennas).

As to Raul Castro's new laws (lineamientos), it has changed the landscape of Havana. But those changes are not for real since there's no private wholesalers. For example, if you open a private restaurant (now they will allow up to 50 or more chairs), you are forced to buy from the state at astronomical prices, etc.

In fact, those changes are provoking an atrocious inequality. All Cuban expensive restaurants in Havana and many resorts are packed with Cubans from the island that belong to the "New Class", but most of the island is forced to live with less than 30 dollars and the Rationing Card. In fact, inequality in Cuba is more extreme than in most Latin American countries.

[Rock Newman]

Originally Posted by Manolón

It would make communists nomenklatura and their foreign partners extremelly rich.

When they have more money, repression and anti-capitalist laws become more rigid.

It has happened many times during the last 50 years.

Tourism does not change any political dictatorship, in fact tourism saved Franco.

Also saved Castro after he opened tourism in 1992.

You guys are forgetting we are talking American tourism and American companies setting up shop in Cuba ... not fat Canadian or Italian middle aged men going on sex tours to bang teenage Cuban girls ..... fill Cuba with American tourists , American College kids on Spring Break and more important American business and Castro will fall shortly ... look if the US government decided tomorrow to lift the embargo and allow American companies to set up shop and allow free flow of travel to Cuba by Americans .... Castro would blow a gasket and immediately shoot down a plane or sink a ship .. as his reason for being and rallying his people .. the Big Bully to the north would no longer be an issue and he would have no one to blame for Cuba's ills .. again it would unmask Castro to the world and he would have to come up with other reasons to continue with his repression of Cuba and the Cuban people ... you would be shocked as to how many Castro apologists I have encountered in my travels in Latin America , Europe and even the US !!

[cixcell]

Originally Posted by Rock Newman

You guys are forgetting we are talking American tourism and American companies setting up shop in Cuba ... not fat Canadian or Italian middle aged men going on sex tours to bang teenage Cuban girls ..... fill Cuba with American tourists , American College kids on Spring Break and more important American business and Castro will fall shortly ... look if the US government decided tomorrow to lift the embargo and allow American companies to set up shop and allow free flow of travel to Cuba by Americans .... Castro would blow a gasket and immediately shoot down a plane or sink a ship .. as his reason for being and rallying his people .. the Big Bully to the north would no longer be an issue and he would have no one to blame for Cuba's ills .. again it would unmask Castro to the world and eliminate the liberal sympathy he seeme to have worldwide .

[Rock Newman]

Man that is too funny ... and yes that looks like the fat Sicilian or Spanish tourist you would see in Varadero which is a beautiful Cuban Beach ... although I have seen French Canadians that look like that guy on Hollywood Beach as well !!

[Manolón]

You are describing sex tourism, sex tourism is negligible. More than 90 percent of foreign tourists are families. They arrive at several aiports and are shipped to resorts thoughout the island.

Cuba is not prepared for American tourists, hotels are subgrade and the country is expensive by American standards. No infrastrucre. All other Caribbean destinations are way cheaper and have a better quality. I don't see Spring Breakers in Cuba.

They will NEVER allow American companies (including Cuban-American ventures) to invest in Cuba. In the extremelly remote event that the American Government allows it, the Cuban goverment will do what you mentioned.

[boxus]

Originally Posted by Manolón

It would make communists nomenklatura and their foreign partners extremelly rich.

When they have more money, repression and anti-capitalist laws become more rigid.

It has happened many times during the last 50 years.

Tourism does not change any political dictatorship, in fact tourism saved Franco.

Also saved Castro after he opened tourism in 1992.

Disagree with the Franco comment, the US propped up the regime (like many others) because of its anti-Communist stance. The regime would have simply fallen if it was not for the huge amount of support from the US.

My previous post made no mention of regime change, it made mention of reform. The amount of people living under strict dictatorships have fallen rapidily in the last half of the 20th century. While there are still one party rule type dictatorships, even many of those people still live much better off than the average Cuban.

If there is going to be isolation and embargo type policies, it should be from the Cuban side (like North Korea), not from the US side.

And again, how is it an American is free to travel to any country in the world except for Cuba? That alone shows that the embargo makes no sense as the point of it is hypocritical in light of our relations with other countries in which an American is free to travel to. Goodness, a person could even travel to Afghanistan freely after the 9/11 attacks.

Lastly, a government has no business telling a citizen what country they can and cannot go to, that goes directly against individual liberty and classical liberal foundations in which this country, and many others, were set.

[cixcell]

ok all the canadians tell me that they dont want the embargo to end because it will raise the prices of tourism in cuba. that tells me that what you say is BS if its cheap even for the canadians.

aww, youre just angry i posted your photo to the forum.