Miami: Diversity or not Diversity? (Hialeah: sales, live in, floor)

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Manolón

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What DNA Test Should I Take to Determine if I have Jewish or 10-Israel Ancestry?
If you're male and your goal is simply to determine which Y-DNA Haplogroup you belong to for deep-ancestry purposes (such as Hebrew Identity questions), the "Y-DNA - Universal Male Test" (starting at $119.00) is highly recommended as a place to start.
Men can test their Y-DNA to determine the origin of their paternal line only (which is Biblically more significant in regards to tribal identity). The Y-DNA test strictly checks the father-to-grandfather-to-great-grandfather line, with no maternal genetic influence. Women do not receive Y-DNA, and therefore cannot themselves be tested for their paternal ancestry line, but they can ask a brother or a male relative to be tested.

I doubt I'd have any Jewish ancestry. But I'd love to take the test. Irish and French guy here.

Regarding the test though, if it's only patrilineal, that's an enormous amount of other ancestors it's not recording.

[WINTERFRONT]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I doubt I'd have any Jewish ancestry. But I'd love to take the test. Irish and French guy here.

Regarding the test though, if it's only patrilineal, that's an enormous amount of other ancestors it's not recording.

If you get tested and you see that you might have roots to the middle east, then you probably will end up with a dna similar to people of different ethnicities from that region, but it will be hard to tell which semite family you are actually descendant of. Such tests can't tell at all if you root back to the israelites responsible for the fall of the wall of jericho, per se.

[catt6]

exactly winterfront.

this is all part of the typical fallacy that many non-Jews just DO NOT GET. the word "Jewish" does not refer to geneological roots, or ancestral DNA, it only refers to the religion practiced by the person.

one is a culture/geneaology - the other is a religion. Non-jews mix these two different things up CONSTANTLY -- down through history it has always gotten mixed up - and it is inaccurate.

a person can be descended from, and proven by DNA, that one comes from SEMITIC tribes - that is still separate and distinct from whether or not they practice the RELIGION of Judaism. Semites - ppl descended from Semitic tribes - still are not 'necessarily' 'all' JEWISH. DNA could prove that one could be descended from Semitic tribal peoples, with middle-eastern genetic roots.... but that does NOT mean they would necessarily practice the RELIGION of Judaism. some of the ancestral Semitic peoples descended into people who became Muslims, and some (as in Ethiopia) became Coptic Christians -- they are all descended from Semitic tribes, but have branched out into several different religions.

DNA, and tribal roots, and yadayadayada -- all that stuff is accurate but still does not have relevance to the discussion of "diversity" when thinking about the population of any particular city and whether or not it is 'diverse' -- because Miami could have Polish people, Italian people, Ethiopian people, Brazilian people, Columbian people -- etc etc etc , and any of them might either be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever other religions there are in the world. Their religion does not mean anything with regard to whether cultural diversity is present in the popluation.

[Manolón]

Originally Posted by winterfront

if you get tested and you see that you might have roots to the middle east, then you probably will end up with a dna similar to people of different ethnicities from that region, but it will be hard to tell which semite family you are actually descendant of. Such tests can't tell at all if you root back to the israelites responsible for the fall of the wall of jericho, per se.

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Wrong again
There are many subclades that are present only in people of Jewish heritage.
Subclades vary relatively short spans, for example, you have subclades that are specific of very specific areas of Spain, France, etc. There are subclades only present in Sephardic or Ashkenazim Jews, Basques, Iberians....
Any close-knit group (such as Jews) develop a large amount of specific subclades.

[Manolón]

Originally Posted by catt6

exactly winterfront.

this is all part of the typical fallacy that many non-Jews just DO NOT GET. the word "Jewish" does not refer to geneological roots, or ancestral DNA, it only refers to the religion practiced by the person.

one is a culture/geneaology - the other is a religion. Non-jews mix these two different things up CONSTANTLY -- down through history it has always gotten mixed up - and it is inaccurate.

a person can be descended from, and proven by DNA, that one comes from SEMITIC tribes - that is still separate and distinct from whether or not they practice the RELIGION of Judaism. Semites - ppl descended from Semitic tribes - still are not 'necessarily' 'all' JEWISH. DNA could prove that one could be descended from Semitic tribal peoples, with middle-eastern genetic roots.... but that does NOT mean they would necessarily practice the RELIGION of Judaism. some of the ancestral Semitic peoples descended into people who became Muslims, and some (as in Ethiopia) became Coptic Christians -- they are all descended from Semitic tribes, but have branched out into several different religions.

DNA, and tribal roots, and yadayadayada -- all that stuff is accurate but still does not have relevance to the discussion of "diversity" when thinking about the population of any particular city and whether or not it is 'diverse' -- because Miami could have Polish people, Italian people, Ethiopian people, Brazilian people, Columbian people -- etc etc etc , and any of them might either be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever other religions there are in the world. Their religion does not mean anything with regard to whether cultural diversity is present in the popluation.

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You are a living proof of a Catholic dogma: "The dogma of the invincible ignorance".
There are subclades that are only present in Jews.
There are even specific subclades that are specific of Catalans.
Jews are an ethnic group because they don't proselitize, in other words, their religion is transmitted by the matrilineal lineage.
In other words, Jews did not spent all their gold converting heathens just like Catholics did, Jews don't convert non-Jews.
That's why they are an ethnic group no matter what the American census bureau and PC politicians say.
Since Jews were around as an ethnic group 3.000 years to 3.500 years ago, I think that the importance of PC politicians and the Census Bureau is inconsequential.

[Manolón]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I doubt I'd have any Jewish ancestry. But I'd love to take the test. Irish and French guy here.

Regarding the test though, if it's only patrilineal, that's an enormous amount of other ancestors it's not recording.

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You never know, it can be both matrilineal and patrilineal (for a fee!!!).
There was never many Jews in Ireland (poor country), but France always had an important Jewish community.
It's a pity that Addie can't take the DNA test, it would be interesting to know if his grandmother was knocked out by the son of a Jewish merchant in Grass.

[boxus]

Being Jewish is a choice, simply having family relations with someone who is Jewish does not mean being Jewish is a genetic trait. That is like saying being Southern baptist is a genetic trait because everyone in E. Kentucky is genetically related.

Religion is strictly a choice, unlike say the color of someone's skin.

[Manolón]

Most Jewish, I'd say 99,99 were born of Jewish parents. The religion is transmitted through the mother.

Jews don't favour conversions.

People in Kentucky do not have a history of 3.500 years.

I think that you are from India, right?

Jews are like Brahmins, you are born a Brahmin or you're not a Brahmin.

[boxus]

Each person is an individual, a person being born Jewish is no different than saying someone is born republican. The individual has the choice, no one else. The parents my ID their child as whatever they want, but when the child reaches the age of making choices, they can either continue to be what ever their parents assigned them to be, believe in nothing, become a Muslim, or whatever they want to be.

Sure there are culture and genetic stereotypical traits involved, but that is not transmitting a sequenced DNA pattern that states the person is of a particular religion. When I see a fat white tourist, I always assume they are Baptist and from the south, that does not mean they are genetically born with a gene that states they are such.

No, I am not from India or anywhere close to it, just speak the language!

[Manolón]

Yes, all humans are the same, but Jews are an ethnic group with a specific DNA, just like any other ethnic group.