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((I haven't really read any of the previous pages. I just wanted to add my 2 cents. ))
I have lived in Miami for a little over 5 years now. My previous Spanish educate was 2 years in high school, the second year consisting less of learning Spanish and more of helping the teacher prepare tacos for a club, but I digress...
There are niche areas that a non-Spanish speaking person would most likely not be able to thrive in. The only ones I know of and have personal experience with are Hialeah, Sweetwater, and sometimes the area known as Midway/Tamiami. Likewise, there are areas that I'd never had languages issues in-- Doral, Coral Gables, Miami Beach, and Pincrest/Perrine. Now, (please no one kill me for this) these areas have an income separation about them. Hialeah and Sweetwater are cheap, blue collar areas. Midway/Tamiami I've had mostly commercial dealings with it, so I cannot comment on living area. Doral, Pincrest, and Perrine are mainly middle-to-upper-middle income mixed (?), and Coral Gables (to me) is rich and Miami Beach is up the wazoo and made for tourists anyways.
I've been able to integrate, but before I ever would've thought of coming here I liked learning about the Latin culture and the Spanish language. So there's that.
I speak my limited Spanish at my job when assisting Spanish-speaking peoples, but as a customer I will speak what I am most comfortable speaking (English). But also, if I go to the Fritanga in Sweetwater for some Nicaraguan food, I am not going to be surprised/upset if the person attending me cannot speak English.
Now I will say that as a white girl with brown hair and green eyes, I have been told by various customers (before I speak and my Southern accent becomes apparent) that I look Cuban, Spanish, and occasionally Brazilian. I've been told my name is exotic (it's a really, really, really, common 90s white girl name) which is kind of interesting and new for me.
I used to be paranoid about people speaking Spanish around me, but I've decided that if they were actually being rude enough to trash-talk in front of me, then I'm not the one with the problems.
So, can a non-Hispanic white integrate into Miami? With the same kind of adaptive effort you'd have to put in when drastically changes cities (say New Orleans to Anchorage) I think so.
Can it be done well? ...Sorry, individual results may vary.
Excellent points. It seems the tipping point occurred a long time ago in Miami and any non-hispanic or non-spanish speaking individual(s) would really have to have a passion and desire to live in Miami and adopt it's unique flavor and focus regarding latin culture. Miami to outsiders is certainly not like most other North American cities where one can find a good size community of non-hispanic english only residents. For better or worse this is the case.
From reading most of this thread it only reinforces what most people already know which is there is a big division in attitudes regarding spanish/english speaking in Miami and a respect for others. It is certainly not a melting pot. Miami for all it's various Carribean and South American influences is very one dimensional compared to most other large American cities and it's influences outside of the Latino world are few.
For the many that speak mostly Spanish day-to-day in Miami even though they are capable of speaking English and scoff at the fact that people who grew up in Miami as non-hispanics do not wish to learn Spanish here is an analogy:
Imagine growing up in Cuba, or to make it more realistic to current political conditions, growing up in Puerto Rico. Specifically the westside of the island in a city like Mayaguez for instance. Quickly over time Haitians flee from Haiti for political freedom and the government allows the influx of immigrants to stay in Puerto Rico. Of course, many stay where they first land as the best opportunites for them are there. In the beginning, it may be a welcome change to the city. Eventually though, fractions start to occur on both sides. Many original residents start to notice that there are so many new people that are speaking a language unfamiliar to them (French) and little by little other changes become very noticiable as well. Businesses start to open that cater to Haitians and their needs. Restaurants with Haitian food , radio with Haiti music, televison stations completely in French with Haitian news that is relevent to Haiti. Eventually you look around and the people that you see look and act differently than you and the people that lived here. Different sports or interests that are not what you grew up with or that the rest of the nation traditionally supports are now in favor. Traditional Puerto Rican food or culture and its norms is completely ignored. Forget about adding in crime increases or additional stress on your children's schools due to the added numbers of foreign speaking or low income students. Pretend that eveything is as it was yet now when you walk into the same supermarket you always shopped at you are now looked at funny or treated rudely because you don't speak French. As the novelty of change has worn off and the diversity has now changed into a one-dimensional new order, you begin to tire of the same food and music or conversations, etc. that are not inclusive of you or the city and life you were used to. You didn't move anywhere. You are still in your same neighborhood, city and country. In fact, you had a personal part in helping the newcomers when they needed help.
Now, years later, the original immigrants who found they didn't need to learn the language of their new country and their children who grew up with a better life and owe some of their opportunities to many of the citizens of the new country decide to willfully choose to speak French in front of you to keep you out of conversations and think you are ridiculous for not loving Haitian culture, religion, music etc. as well as learning French.
Within one generation, the westside of Puerto Rico is nothing like the rest of it and the people that never liked the change have left or died off and the immigrants that are still there are so overwhelmed with themselves that they don't fit in with the rest of the country either.
Excellent points. It seems the tipping point occurred a long time ago in Miami and any non-hispanic or non-spanish speaking individual(s) would really have to have a passion and desire to live in Miami and adopt it's unique flavor and focus regarding latin culture. Miami to outsiders is certainly not like most other North American cities where one can find a good size community of non-hispanic english only residents. For better or worse this is the case.
From reading most of this thread it only reinforces what most people already know which is there is a big division in attitudes regarding spanish/english speaking in Miami and a respect for others. It is certainly not a melting pot. Miami for all it's various Carribean and South American influences is very one dimensional compared to most other large American cities and it's influences outside of the Latino world are few.
For the many that speak mostly Spanish day-to-day in Miami even though they are capable of speaking English and scoff at the fact that people who grew up in Miami as non-hispanics do not wish to learn Spanish here is an analogy:
Imagine growing up in Cuba, or to make it more realistic to current political conditions, growing up in Puerto Rico. Specifically the westside of the island in a city like Mayaguez for instance. Quickly over time Haitians flee from Haiti for political freedom and the government allows the influx of immigrants to stay in Puerto Rico. Of course, many stay where they first land as the best opportunites for them are there. In the beginning, it may be a welcome change to the city. Eventually though, fractions start to occur on both sides. Many original residents start to notice that there are so many new people that are speaking a language unfamiliar to them (French) and little by little other changes become very noticiable as well. Businesses start to open that cater to Haitians and their needs. Restaurants with Haitian food , radio with Haiti music, televison stations completely in French with Haitian news that is relevent to Haiti. Eventually you look around and the people that you see look and act differently than you and the people that lived here. Different sports or interests that are not what you grew up with or that the rest of the nation traditionally supports are now in favor. Traditional Puerto Rican food or culture and its norms is completely ignored. Forget about adding in crime increases or additional stress on your children's schools due to the added numbers of foreign speaking or low income students. Pretend that eveything is as it was yet now when you walk into the same supermarket you always shopped at you are now looked at funny or treated rudely because you don't speak French. As the novelty of change has worn off and the diversity has now changed into a one-dimensional new order, you begin to tire of the same food and music or conversations, etc. that are not inclusive of you or the city and life you were used to. You didn't move anywhere. You are still in your same neighborhood, city and country. In fact, you had a personal part in helping the newcomers when they needed help.
Now, years later, the original immigrants who found they didn't need to learn the language of their new country and their children who grew up with a better life and owe some of their opportunities to many of the citizens of the new country decide to willfully choose to speak French in front of you to keep you out of conversations and think you are ridiculous for not loving Haitian culture, religion, music etc. as well as learning French.
Within one generation, the westside of Puerto Rico is nothing like the rest of it and the people that never liked the change have left or died off and the immigrants that are still there are so overwhelmed with themselves that they don't fit in with the rest of the country either.
How would you feel being on the other side?
it would suck but i would learn french and would adapt. I don't c what's so hard about being bilingual. if I know English perfectly why should I have to speak it.
It is certainly not a melting pot. Miami for all it's various Carribean and South American influences is very one dimensional compared to most other large American cities and it's influences outside of the Latino world are few.
Great analogy. Miami does not offer diversity...there is one culture.
Here is what I do not understand; what is this constant fear from people about someone talking about them?
I don't care if others are talking about me. If they aren't doing it in Spanish in front of me, they can just as easily do it in English when I'm not there. My issue boils down to common courtesy. It doesn't help create a cohesive work force and office environment.
North America is a continent.
United States of America is a country.
So to reiterate other comments in the thread....English is the national language of the United States -- And that would be the country, not the continent.
It seems to me that a majority of Hispanics in Miami do not know English. And that is the primary point of many other posts on this forum.
It does seem that way, but it is not so.
Quote:
Miami's Unique Latino Migration
The prevalence of the Spanish language in Miami may have more to do with the city's unique immigrant history than with the percentage of Spanish speakers within its limits.
In contrast with El Paso, which has had Latino inhabitants since its founding in 1850 (and was part of Mexico until the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848), in the younger city of Miami, Hispanics tend to be more recent arrivals. And the segment of Latino immigrants Miami has attracted also varies from those in cities close to the U.S.-Mexico border.
"The percentage of Latino immigrants belonging to the middle and upper socioeconomic classes in their countries of origin has been much higher in Miami than in other areas of the country," linguist Andrew Lynch said. "In the last sixty years, we've seen the arrival of many highly educated, entrepreneurial immigrants from around Latin America."
Lynch says the city's unique immigration history has made it such that Miami's populace sees "Spanish as a prestigious language and not at all linguistically subordinate to English." Lynch thinks this perspective may be why Spanish is used so often in restaurants, at stores and on the street.
Eileen Zelek, who lived in Miami for most of her life, says that she thinks the prevalence of Spanish in the city may have to do with the lack of "stigma" associated with speaking the language.
"The people who are in highest level of power economically and politically tend to be Latino or Hispanic-- so there’s no stigma in speaking Spanish, really," Zelek said. "In fact, it's almost expected that you speak Spanish." Spanish In Miami: Diciendo 'Hola' Or Saying 'Hello'
The linked article leaves out the other very important difference in Miami's immigration pattern: for the past 50 years one segment of Miami's Hispanic population has had unfettered access to the US and US citzenship.
Quote:
For Cubans who want to immigrate to the United States, the hardest part is getting here.
Since 1966, they've essentially been granted automatic refugee status upon arrival. The Cuban Adjustment Act was enacted then to address the legal status of 300,000 Cubans who'd fled Fidel Castro's socialist revolution.
Almost half a century later, the Cubans who come to America rarely claim to be victims of political persecution. They want a better economic future, or to join family members already here, or both — just like most of the people who want to immigrate from anywhere else.
Unlike most immigrants, though, Cubans don't have to wait years for a visa, or sneak across the border illegally. Once they're here, they're fast-tracked to legal residency, with a clear path to citizenship.Cuban Adjustment Act; immigration; reform - Chicago Tribune
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))
I've been told my name is exotic (it's a really, really, really, common 90s white girl name) which is kind of interesting and new for me.
