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We had a rude example of being ignored at home depot this weekend, clearly because we appeared to be white non Hispanic, unlet my Cuban came out and said es!! Pera!! We were here first and have been waiting for a long ass time ago!
It really angers me and a LOT of Cubans my same age, which folks look a hell of lot like Florida white folks, to be un respected like this.
Mostly we will get this from south Americans, and newly Cuban folk and the second generation even first gen Cubans get Mad.
I stood up and said to the clerk No we were here for forty mins waiting we are first! he tried in spanish to push ahead and then I let my full Cuban Spanish out on him saying HOW DARE he try to got first, when clearly he saw us for thirty mins waiting.
If it were not for my strong demeanor and full Spanish, I think my husband would be left frustrated and second. THAT I think is the root of the problem, NOT the langugage but the culture!
North America is a continent.
United States of America is a country.
So to reiterate other comments in the thread....English is the national language of the United States -- And that would be the country, not the continent.
America is a continent, North America, Central America and South America are sub-continents, United States of America is a country... a country without official language.
The main languages of the American Continent after the amerindian massacre are Spanish, English, Portuguese and French.
it would suck but i would learn french and would adapt. I don't c what's so hard about being bilingual. if I know English perfectly why should I have to speak it.
Yes, it would suck. Perhaps you would adapt or perhaps you would decide to leave. The question for the person considering moving in, as the OP asked, is how much do they want to live in a Latin American city.
It is not just the language. One example, homes in traditionally nice areas with large lots now have neighbors who regularly practice Santeria. This is something that used to be isolated to less affulent parts of town. Now 30 people in white show up, swing chickens over their heads to break their necks, lambs and goats have their necks cut while they scream all in broad daylight and certainly within earshot and eyesight of neighbors. Not a pretty sight for the unexposed but perfectly normal now in many neighborhoods. The non-hispanic white, asian, jewish, midwesterners, etc... are no longer there with enough numbers to adequately complain as a community. Obviously, the police cannot do anything other than enforce noise complaints and force the chanting and drum beating indoors. The killing is protected by religious freedom as we all know. It is certainly not enjoyable to see the carcasses left in nearby intersections or in the corners of a neighbor's yard next to their voodoo looking talisman. Imagine trying to enjoy your Saturday or Sunday in the pool with your kids while dealing with that every couple of weekends or the occasional beaded horse tails that are left to dry in the sun.
Also, odds are, if you are like most born and raised Miami residents from Hispanic homes, you do not speak perfect English nor do your write and read proper professional Spanish. What may not be noticible to you or any of your friends would be instantly noticible by anyone from outside of South Florida. A true accent or "Miami accent" only furthers the distance between Miami residents and the rest of the country. Companies have trouble recruiting outside of the Spanish speaking world and the city continues to isolate itself. This is a problem for both adults and their children that follow who do not seem to fit in outside of Miami and prefer to stay in town for college and continue to work in Miami thereafter. It has become a very stagnant pond except for the continued influx of Latin Americans.
Last edited by shamrockfisher; 07-02-2013 at 06:52 PM..
Yes, it would suck. Perhaps you would adapt or perhaps you would decide to leave. The question for the person considering moving in, as the OP asked, is how much do they want to live in a Latin American city.
It is not just the language. One example, homes in traditionally nice areas with large lots now have neighbors who regularly practice Santeria. This is something that used to be isolated to less affulent parts of town. Now 30 people in white show up, swing chickens over their heads to break their necks, lambs and goats have their necks cut while they scream all in broad daylight and certainly within earshot and eyesight of neighbors. Not a pretty sight for the unexposed but perfectly normal now in many neighborhoods. The non-hispanic white, asian, jewish, midwesterners, etc... are no longer there with enough numbers to adequately complain as a community. Obviously, the police cannot do anything other than enforce noise complaints and force the chanting and drum beating indoors. The killing is protected by religious freedom as we all know. It is certainly not enjoyable to see the carcasses left in nearby intersections or in the corners of a neighbor's yard next to their voodoo looking talisman. Imagine trying to enjoy your Saturday or Sunday in the pool with your kids while dealing with that every couple of weekends or the occasional beaded horse tails that are left to dry in the sun.
Also, odds are, if you are like most born and raised Miami residents from Hispanic homes, you do not speak perfect English nor do your write and read proper professional Spanish. What may not be noticible to you or any of your friends would be instantly noticible by anyone from outside of South Florida. A true accent or "Miami accent" only furthers the distance between Miami residents and the rest of the country. Companies have trouble recruiting outside of the Spanish speaking world and the city continues to isolate itself. This is a problem for both adults and their children that follow who do not seem to fit in outside of Miami and prefer to stay in town for college and continue to work in Miami thereafter. It has become a very stagnant pond except for the continued influx of Latin Americans.
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I think you've described it to a T. I recall a young Cuban-American coworker telling me one time about how most of her peers spoke, as she put it, "baby Spanish", ie, what they learned as children from their parents/grandparents or relatives, and they were unable to either read or write Spanish. I've had other Cubans verify this, and they planned to send their children to language magnet schools so the kids could learn to read,write, and speak proper Spanish.
What I found discouraging when we lived there and sent our kids to the public schools in Dade County, was what seemed like a wasted opportunity, with so much Spanish spoken, many of the teachers Hispanic,and Spanish classes as a part of the curriculum from third grade or so on, for all the students, Hispanic or not, to become at least somewhat proficient in the language. But it seemed that any Spanish teachers we came across either were not proficient themselves in Spanish (having gotten their positions by virtue of who they knew, and being a compatriot of a School Board member), or couldn't/didn't care to teach. The kids learned a few conversational phrases, but never grammar, and never learned to read or write anything at all in Spanish. I recall my daughter participating in a summer school "Spanish Immersion" program in between 4th and 5th grade.This program had had an excellent teacher and the program had always had rave reviews prior to the year my daughter got into it. But they put in a new teacher the year my daughter came into the program, who not only taught the kids no Spanish at all, they didn't speak any Spanish in the classroom or on their field trips either. This class consisted mostly of field trips to various Cuban restaurants, and a visit to a cigar factory and a couple other factories in Hialeah- we got a good supply of Cuban spices and a few cigars, but those kids progressed nowhere in their Spanish skills.
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I think you've described it to a T. I recall a young Cuban-American coworker telling me one time about how most of her peers spoke, as she put it, "baby Spanish", ie, what they learned as children from their parents/grandparents or relatives, and they were unable to either read or write Spanish. I've had other Cubans verify this, and they planned to send their children to language magnet schools so the kids could learn to read,write, and speak proper Spanish.
Yes, it's a
What I found discouraging when we lived there and sent our kids to the public schools in Dade County, was what seemed like a wasted opportunity, with so much Spanish spoken, many of the teachers Hispanic,and Spanish classes as a part of the curriculum from third grade or so on, for all the students, Hispanic or not, to become at least somewhat proficient in the language. But it seemed that any Spanish teachers we came across either were not proficient themselves in Spanish (having gotten their positions by virtue of who they knew, and being a compatriot of a School Board member), or couldn't/didn't care to teach. The kids learned a few conversational phrases, but never grammar, and never learned to read or write anything at all in Spanish. I recall my daughter participating in a summer school "Spanish Immersion" program in between 4th and 5th grade.This program had had an excellent teacher and the program had always had rave reviews prior to the year my daughter got into it. But they put in a new teacher the year my daughter came into the program, who not only taught the kids no Spanish at all, they didn't speak any Spanish in the classroom or on their field trips either. This class consisted mostly of field trips to various Cuban restaurants, and a visit to a cigar factory and a couple other factories in Hialeah- we got a good supply of Cuban spices and a few cigars, but those kids progressed nowhere in their Spanish skills.
Yes, it's a natural progression that immigrants move through. It is why a foreign language is historically lost by the third generation. In this case, Spanish is spoken at home and it's the first language the children speak but when they reach school age they rebel a bit and want to speak more English because that is what is spoken at school. Also, just as non-hispanic speakers experience in classrooms, the teaching and emphasis on perfecting Spanish reading and writing is lacking for Spanish speakers as well. So, the first generation born in the US speaks the language but cannot read and write it as well as their parents. It is further diminished each subsequent generation.
It may be delayed slightly in Miami as immigration continues but eventually South Florida will be very similar to the Jersey Shore. Everyone in Miami will look Spanish and have Spanish last names but at best will use Spanish words as punchlines for jokes with their "Miami Accent".
We had a rude example of being ignored at home depot this weekend, clearly because we appeared to be white non Hispanic, unlet my Cuban came out and said es!! Pera!! We were here first and have been waiting for a long ass time ago!
It really angers me and a LOT of Cubans my same age, which folks look a hell of lot like Florida white folks, to be un respected like this.
Mostly we will get this from south Americans, and newly Cuban folk and the second generation even first gen Cubans get Mad.
I stood up and said to the clerk No we were here for forty mins waiting we are first! he tried in spanish to push ahead and then I let my full Cuban Spanish out on him saying HOW DARE he try to got first, when clearly he saw us for thirty mins waiting.
If it were not for my strong demeanor and full Spanish, I think my husband would be left frustrated and second. THAT I think is the root of the problem, NOT the langugage but the culture!
Something similiar happened to a british woman I worked with. She was at Winn Dixie and the people behind the bakery counter said they didn't speak english and so they couldn't help her. When she went to the front and spoke to the manger, he said they speak english. Hopefully they were repromanded or fired for not waiting on this british woman.
Something similiar happened to a british woman I worked with. She was at Winn Dixie and the people behind the bakery counter said they didn't speak english and so they couldn't help her. When she went to the front and spoke to the manger, he said they speak english. Hopefully they were repromanded or fired for not waiting on this british woman.
It's unfortunate. People are people and they get their digs in where they can. I am sure there were times when Hispanics experienced they same from non-hispanics in Miami. It seems to be a problem when their is an overwhelming majority of any type - race, color or religion, etc... in any setting. That is why a melting pot of cultures seems to strike the best balance for all involved.
Unfortunately for Miami, as the influx over the 60s, 70s and 80s continued and the natural disaster of Hurricane Andrew created an opportunity for a major exodus of non-hispanics out, Miami developed rapidly through the 90s and the 00s into what it is today. Non-hospitable for most non-hispanics in a largely culturally diverse yet English speaking country.
It is not that you can't survive by not speaking Espanol. It is that over time you will find things increasingly one-dimensional and uninteresting and the daily inclusion of various aspects of normal life becomes non-existant. You may not be interested in typically listening to other peoples conversations as you wait in line at the supermarket or go to the movies or workout at the gym but without the aid of at least understanding the words or context of others it is similar to walking around all day with headphones on. You finally feel isolated even next to other people. That is no fun for anyone over time.
By moving to and living on Brickell or Miami Beach or Key Biscayne you may circumvent some of these things by being closer to tourists and events and the water and beaches which is the real beauty of Miami that everyone talks about but is not seen everyday by most people who live in suburban Miami. However, these are not areas that are typically best suited for kids or more importantly, affordable by most.
Yes, it would suck. Perhaps you would adapt or perhaps you would decide to leave. The question for the person considering moving in, as the OP asked, is how much do they want to live in a Latin American city.
It is not just the language. One example, homes in traditionally nice areas with large lots now have neighbors who regularly practice Santeria. This is something that used to be isolated to less affulent parts of town. Now 30 people in white show up, swing chickens over their heads to break their necks, lambs and goats have their necks cut while they scream all in broad daylight and certainly within earshot and eyesight of neighbors. Not a pretty sight for the unexposed but perfectly normal now in many neighborhoods. The non-hispanic white, asian, jewish, midwesterners, etc... are no longer there with enough numbers to adequately complain as a community. Obviously, the police cannot do anything other than enforce noise complaints and force the chanting and drum beating indoors. The killing is protected by religious freedom as we all know. It is certainly not enjoyable to see the carcasses left in nearby intersections or in the corners of a neighbor's yard next to their voodoo looking talisman. Imagine trying to enjoy your Saturday or Sunday in the pool with your kids while dealing with that every couple of weekends or the occasional beaded horse tails that are left to dry in the sun.
Also, odds are, if you are like most born and raised Miami residents from Hispanic homes, you do not speak perfect English nor do your write and read proper professional Spanish. What may not be noticible to you or any of your friends would be instantly noticible by anyone from outside of South Florida. A true accent or "Miami accent" only furthers the distance between Miami residents and the rest of the country. Companies have trouble recruiting outside of the Spanish speaking world and the city continues to isolate itself. This is a problem for both adults and their children that follow who do not seem to fit in outside of Miami and prefer to stay in town for college and continue to work in Miami thereafter. It has become a very stagnant pond except for the continued influx of Latin Americans.
Santeria practices/services have never been an issue in my neighborhood. There is a Santeria shop in the same strip mall as my veterinarian....
Yes, it's a natural progression that immigrants move through. It is why a foreign language is historically lost by the third generation. In this case, Spanish is spoken at home and it's the first language the children speak but when they reach school age they rebel a bit and want to speak more English because that is what is spoken at school. Also, just as non-hispanic speakers experience in classrooms, the teaching and emphasis on perfecting Spanish reading and writing is lacking for Spanish speakers as well. So, the first generation born in the US speaks the language but cannot read and write it as well as their parents. It is further diminished each subsequent generation.
It may be delayed slightly in Miami as immigration continues but eventually South Florida will be very similar to the Jersey Shore. Everyone in Miami will look Spanish and have Spanish last names but at best will use Spanish words as punchlines for jokes with their "Miami Accent".
I believe that's what's happened in Tampa. I'd say you were right about the immersion process, and maybe it will happen, we should live so long, LOL. But a significant factor in its delay is the constant influx of new Hispanic immigrants to the area.
What's wierd is that I've seen several Cubans who lived for many years in other parts of the USA, then come back to Miami, and over not too long a time become more "Cuban", some of them even picking up an accent they didn't have before, and sometimes less proficient at English (or so they said.)
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