4 Towers, 60 stories each, Developer planned for Miami River (Orlando, Fort Lauderdale: 2014, mover)

[perry335654]

Four 60-story riverfront towers unveiled | Miami Today

[hurricaneMan1992]

Build the light rail line or Metromover extension through Little Havana, then we can talk about development. This will only bring more cars to SW 7th and 8th and the ramps to I-95, and they will all be DRIVING to Brickell, adding to the traffic congestion there. No more development without mass transit!

[ace587]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Build the light rail line or Metromover extension through Little Havana, then we can talk about development. This will only bring more cars to SW 7th and 8th and the ramps to I-95, and they will all be DRIVING to Brickell, adding to the traffic congestion there. No more development without mass transit!

yes! more mass transit and public space.

[perry335654]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Build the light rail line or Metromover extension through Little Havana, then we can talk about development. This will only bring more cars to SW 7th and 8th and the ramps to I-95, and they will all be DRIVING to Brickell, adding to the traffic congestion there. No more development without mass transit!

People are gong to drive regardless of whether you build light rail or metromover. Brickell is big, it is a happening place, I am sure there are studies already set in place as to the traffic situation.

[Cubanchic]

All the development in a relatively small section of Miami the urban core will bring a lot more folks here and what I am guessing is that there will be a great divide between the western suburbs and the urban core and lastly the beach areas. The developers here have massive influence so while we need mass transit desperately I don't think we are ever going to get it especially since the Feds are not going to chip in.

Going to the beach on any given weekend is just a pain that we rarely go to south beach, only when northern relatives come to visit.

While it seems like a lot exciting changes are happening, the consequences of poor urban planning will come down the line.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by perry335654

I am sure there are studies already set in place as to the traffic situation.

Yeah...sure there are, and I'm sure they're unbiased too! If you've been on the roads in Brickell recently, you don't need a traffic study to tell you that there are already too many cars for the existing infrastructure. If you've tried to park in Brickell, you no doubt noticed that this is not a suburban mall where half of the lot is always empty except for Black Friday.

The point is to have an ALTERNATIVE to driving, even if most people will drive anyway (which BTW I'm not at all opposed to--this is a free country!). Every worker or customer who takes public transportation frees up a parking spot and a spot on the road both for area residents and for more customers to come in spend $$$. Furthermore, let's face it, most of those retail and maintenance workers at Brickell City Center will not be making enough to live in Brickell or to maintain a car and commute from outside of Brickell.

No more development without transit.

[perry335654]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Yeah...sure there are, and I'm sure they're unbiased too! If you've been on the roads in Brickell recently, you don't need a traffic study to tell you that there are already too many cars for the existing infrastructure. If you've tried to park in Brickell, you no doubt noticed that this is not a suburban mall where half of the lot is always empty except for Black Friday.

The point is to have an ALTERNATIVE to driving, even if most people will drive anyway (which BTW I'm not at all opposed to--this is a free country!). Every worker or customer who takes public transportation frees up a parking spot and a spot on the road both for area residents and for more customers to come in spend $$$. Furthermore, let's face it, most of those retail and maintenance workers at Brickell City Center will not be making enough to live in Brickell or to maintain a car and commute from outside of Brickell.

No more development without transit.

Hey this growth is not just in Brickell but Coconut Grove, Little Havana, Central Business District, Omni , Design and Midtown and that just the City of Miami. I'm NOT arguing that there is not heavy traffic but the mindset of the individuals appear to want to drive their cars and not take public transportation. However as time goes on this will change.

Why stagnate growth waiting on a metromover that a lot of individuals don't want to use in the first place makes no sense. I mean what if the people working at Brickell City Centre live in Fort Lauderdale, the city should extend it up to that area ??

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by perry335654

Hey this growth is not just in Brickell but Coconut Grove, Little Havana, Central Business District, Omni , Design and Midtown and that just the City of Miami. I'm NOT arguing that there is not heavy traffic but the mindset of the individuals appear to want to drive their cars and not take public transportation. However as time goes on this will change.

Why stagnate growth waiting on a metromover that a lot of individuals don't want to use in the first place makes no sense. I mean what if the people working at Brickell City Centre live in Fort Lauderdale, the city should extend it up to that area ??

I get it, you won't be riding a Metromover extension to Little Havana because you want to drive your car no matter how bad traffic gets, and if there is no parking, you probably simply won't go. And you are in good company. But PLEASE don't project this mindset on to ALL Miamians and go ahead and claim we shouldn't build mass transit because nobody wants to ride it. If nobody wants to ride mass transit, then why are Metrorail, Metromover, and the busses crowded at rush hour and during events, and why did a majority of voters--most of whom would not live within walking distance of the proposed stations--approve the half penny tax back in 2002?

I'm not saying let's stagnate growth for 10 years while we expand mass transit, I'm saying limit the mega developments to where there is existing mass transit and were they make sense. Look, developers aren't going to leave town just because a site gets denied. Developers still want to be in Miami. Just look no further than Beckham's failed attempt to develop the western edge of Port Miami. He hasn't left town and pitched his MLS stadium to Orlando, now has he?!? There is PLENTY of space to work with within close proximity to mass transit, as shown for example by Brickell City Center, Miami World Center, All Aboard Florida, and Genting's property by the Omni.

[hurricaneMan1992]

At the very least, mass transit expansion needs to be done CONCURRENT with mega-developments like 60 story towers. We KNOW mega development brings mega traffic and parking woes. Especially when you're building on an already congested road system and adjacent to a major traffic impediment--a river with drawbridges. This is as predictable as the fact that rain will lead to wet roads. And as even Perry admits, heavy traffic makes people want to drive less and ride mass transit more. And it is inevitable that Miami will see more development and more traffic. So we KNOW eventually we will need to have mass transit in place. Just like we know we need tires that don't hydroplane in the rain in Florida. So I say plan and build it now, for each new development, make solid plans and allocate funds. Even better--plan and start the expansion of mass transit and focus development along the existing and planned corridors. Otherwise, it will cost much, much more both in construction and acquiring right-of-way when traffic gets so bad that people just stop bothering to come and businesses just start leaving because their customers can't park.

Here is some perspective: The original 22 mile metrorail cost around $1Bn to build. The Feds pitched in so it only cost the County and State $200M. In retrospect, it was a pretty good deal for Miami. It has allowed Brickell, Downtown, Dadeland, Merrick Park to happen. (Outside of the Metrorail and Metromover corridor, Midtown is the biggest thing we've been able to muster.) OK, we recently added a single additional station and 2.4 miles of track for around $500M--that's almost half of the entire original Metrorail!!! The current estimates for the 9.5 mile north expansion are $1.6 Bn and for the 10 mile expansion to FIU $2.2 Bn. And these costs will continue to rise. The highway equivalent would be consider if we had only built a skeleton highway network: the Dolphin Expressway, and simply didn't have any other expressways, and we had to build the Palmetto, Shula, the 'Pike, I-75, and I-95 from scratch at today's construction cost. It would get pretty expensive, wouldn't it... Well that's the situation we're in in terms of mass transit.

[ace587]

Originally Posted by perry335654

Hey this growth is not just in Brickell but Coconut Grove, Little Havana, Central Business District, Omni , Design and Midtown and that just the City of Miami. I'm NOT arguing that there is not heavy traffic but the mindset of the individuals appear to want to drive their cars and not take public transportation. However as time goes on this will change.

Why stagnate growth waiting on a metromover that a lot of individuals don't want to use in the first place makes no sense. I mean what if the people working at Brickell City Centre live in Fort Lauderdale, the city should extend it up to that area ??

Why i do welcome all this new growth. Spending time outside the US in a major city with lots of parks and public transportation, i would love mass transit and parks also being built. Heck the only reason why i dont go to South Beach and Brickell is because of parking. When i go to Brickell i usually park at the Vizcaya Metrorail and take the metrorail to Brickell. Now if the Metrorail extended to my area (NE) would be nice. Traffic on Alton Road and Downtown is insane. ive gotten accustomed to taking the Metrorail a lot and its convenient for me. I just bought a condo in the Grove so i wont be driving my car around and take the metrorail to Dadeland, Sunset, Brickell and i work in the health district.