NY Times trashes Miami

[flyers29]

Originally Posted by WINTERFRONT

dblack86,

The number English-as-second-language speakers tend to be higher here compared to other cities, perhaps that might incline us to think that the accent we hear out there is a Miami accent, but in reality only American born Miamians or people who've been living here since childhood have a Miami accent. There are many accents, of course, and they are dictated by socio-economical factors.

There used to be a thread regarding the existence of possible Miami accents. If I remember correctly the most popular one is thought to be a mix of New York accent, washed-out Southern accent and a sprinkle of Cuban accent. It all depends on the neighborhood.

There's actually an interesting nuance here: I've known several American-born people who technically learned Spanish as their first language because abuela y abuelo took care of them a lot as young kids yet preferred to speak English as they grew up.

[UrbanCrossroads]

Originally Posted by dblack86

A couple things this article got right:
(1) The Miami dialect. I've never met so many people that speak with an accent that were born in America. I made the mistake of thinking some of the people I met were born in other countries. Luckily, all I did was ask where the person was born. I was shocked when the person responded Hialeah.

If she was referring to English spoken with Cuban twang, then she should've been more specific about it and called it either the Hialeah dialect or the Westchester dialect, rather than using the catchall term Miami English.

Here's one of her so-called "aristocrats" who speaks with a bit of twang.
Alexia Echevarria Discusses 'The Real Housewives of Miami' Reunion - YouTube

[dblack86]

There's nothing wrong with speaking with a twang. I just think most people don't realize it exists.

[flyers29]

Originally Posted by Justme305

If she was referring to English spoken with Cuban twang, then she should've been more specific about it and called it either the Hialeah dialect or the Westchester dialect, rather than using the catchall term Miami English.

Here's one of her so-called "aristocrats" who speaks with a bit of twang.
Alexia Echevarria Discusses 'The Real Housewives of Miami' Reunion - YouTube

Sounds like someone with a really strong Miami accent, which you'll indeed probably find more prevalent in Hialeah or Westchester. That's more socioeconomics though...I don't know if you can necessarily pick someone out based on what part of town they grew up in.

[Felix C]

Originally Posted by anhinga3

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/op...a-little-.html


my response

first of all, anyone who lives in paris (she does) thinks the rest of the world's cities are crapholes

second, anyone who has left miami for good will nod in agreement with her points about materialism/consumption

third, her smug and condescending attitude are a product of the miami that she tries to distance herself from (miami breeds snobs just like her)

fourth, she is just another poseur who claims to hate miami when in fact she loves it. anyone who visits miami for weeks in the summer, its most unpleasant season, clearly loves the place

finally, her ivy league degrees and time spent in cities full of intellectualism did nothing for her critical thinking skills, as this vapid piece of prose makes her sound like a classist jerk.

pam should stay in paris.

miami has enough people full of themselves.

Mucho rambling in her piece. NYT truly has declined. It is obvious that she knows nothing about the city/county in recent decades except for what she experienced on her short trips as a tourist.

I suppose just someone acting all knowing to appear hip and cool.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by dblack86

There's nothing wrong with speaking with a twang. I just think most people don't realize it exists.

LOL, it's always the other guy with the accent!

[Miserere]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Cubans half of Latin population but shrinking as more and more So Americans come over...they certainly have a strong presence but their percentage has been shrinking and is likely to continue with the influx of Latinos from other countries, predominantly So America.

That's temporary.

Cubans will move "en masse" (and during temporary stays) as laws change in Cuba and
private concerns such as rentals, restaurants, agriculture, real estate, etc. and remittances and subsidies from the "colonies" (El Norte and Venezuela) become more liquid. It will be mostly temporary stays in "el norte", just as is happening now, since overheads in Cuba are practically inexistent and properties are not confiscated anymore. Cubans don't have any affiliation except Cuban and to group them according to language is idiotic, typically American. Latins in Cuba are as aliens as Papuans in the North Pole, communism and past have combined to create a new people that are entirely different from exiled Cubans, and even more different to Latin. The Neue Menschen. Neue Menschen believes only and exclusively in himself and do not believe in anything specific, just like former Russian ex-neue menchen.

Miami and South Florida are not even considered "El Norte" anymore, but a section of the city beyond the channel. The political and economic dichotomy between exiles and Cuban from the isles is disappearing at a very fast rate, the feud only remains among very old people in Cuba and Miami that are practically the same people, people over 80 years old.

Quite an interesting fact is English, English went from "not tolerated and not officially taught" language to a language spoken by everybody. They speak like that bald singer from Miami always on commercial tv screens on tourist and hard currency joints in Cuba, never on official tv, the ones that says "tremendo culo". Where was English hidden? Reminds me of Shanghai and how all "forgot" English during Maoism.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by Miserere

That's temporary.

Cubans will move "en masse" (and during temporary stays) as laws change in Cuba and
private concerns such as rentals, restaurants, agriculture, real estate, etc. and remittances and subsidies from the "colonies" (El Norte and Venezuela) become more liquid. It will be mostly temporary stays in "el norte", just as is happening now, since overheads in Cuba are practically inexistent and properties are not confiscated anymore. Cubans don't have any affiliation except Cuban and to group them according to language is idiotic, typically American. Latins in Cuba are as aliens as Papuans in the North Pole, communism and past have combined to create a new people that are entirely different from exiled Cubans, and even more different to Latin. The Neue Menschen. Neue Menschen believes only and exclusively in himself and do not believe in anything specific, just like former Russian ex-neue menchen.

Miami and South Florida are not even considered "El Norte" anymore, but a section of the city beyond the channel. The political and economic dichotomy between exiles and Cuban from the isles is disappearing at a very fast rate, the feud only remains among very old people in Cuba and Miami that are practically the same people, people over 80 years old.

Quite an interesting fact is English, English went from "not tolerated and not officially taught" language to a language spoken by everybody. They speak like that bald singer from Miami always on commercial tv screens on tourist and hard currency joints in Cuba, never on official tv, the ones that says "tremendo culo". Where was English hidden? Reminds me of Shanghai and how all "forgot" English during Maoism.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, or perhaps these are your own personal perspectives and beliefs about Cubans and Cuba.

I've talked to, worked with, been friends and neighbors with many many Cubans over the years I lived in Miami, and the overwhelming number of the younger Cubans I have met, especially- those who were born in the USA or came to the US as young children identify themselves more as Americans ( Cuban-Americans, for sure) and the US as their home. Many of them, especially, I'd say, those living in Miami believe it's important for them to maintain an identity also with their Cuban culture, but they admit they have no experience with Cuba and say they have no reason to want to return to a place they don't know. Granted, there are those who maintain their status in the US as "Cuban exiles", even after being in the US for over 50 years and partaking of our country's largesse so willingly all that time, but I see that as a few of the older folks who actually remember their live in Cuba and who came here to escape Castro's Cuba.

I'd also be skeptical about Cubans in Cuba believing that Miami is an extension of their island, ie, "Havana North".... remember Elian Gonzalez's father?